Top Tier Gasolines

[Joe C.]

Top Tier gasolines all have proprietary detergent formulas. Is it possible/probable that a degradation of effectiveness happens if mixing between different brands occurs?

[Bradley D.]

Re: Top Tier Gasolines

The difference in gasoline is negligible from station to station. With the exception of a station owner that doesn't clean the tanks and/or someone 'accidently' putting regular in a premium tank (i.e. octane 89 vs 91). Nothing to worry about here.

[Bruce B.]

Re: Top Tier Gasolines

I use Shell 93 and it's detergent properties are excellent due to thier detergent choices.
I have to assume that if you dilute or mix it with another brand of gas the detergent effectiveness would (could) be compromised.

[Joe L.]

Re: Top Tier Gasolines

Top Tier gasolines all have proprietary detergent formulas. Is it possible/probable that a degradation of effectiveness happens if mixing between different brands occurs?

Joe------


Compatibility of one additive package with other additive packages is one of the requirements of the USEPA as well as "Top Tier" certification. I believe that mixing two different brands of gasoline will not result in degradation of effectiveness assuming that two Top Tier gasolines are mixed. However, if Top Tier gasoline is mixed with non-Top Tier gasoline, then I expect that some degradation will occur.

By the way, testing to assure that "Top Tier" gasoline meets "Top Tier" standards is quite elaborate and comprehensive.

[Jim D.]

Re: Top Tier Gasolines

"Top Tier" is nothing more than marketing hype. The ingredients added are in such a minute quantity they are barely measurable and have no effect what so ever, at least according to several testing laboratories. I've used ARCO or generic brand gas (bottom tier according to some) for about 30 years in everything from my lawnmower to my new Corvette and never had a gas related issue in anything. Top tier standards are created by the oil industry and are voluntary. Pay more if it makes you feel better but there's no advantage to it.

[Joe L.]

Re: Top Tier Gasolines

"Top Tier" is nothing more than marketing hype. The ingredients added are in such a minute quantity they are barely measurable and have no effect what so ever, at least according to several testing laboratories. I've used ARCO or generic brand gas (bottom tier according to some) for about 30 years in everything from my lawnmower to my new Corvette and never had a gas related issue in anything. Top tier standards are created by the oil industry and are voluntary. Pay more if it makes you feel better but there's no advantage to it.

Jim------


Consider this: The automakers must conduct extensive testing on powertrain combinations in various models of cars to comply with USEPA and USDOT requirements concerning emissions, fuel economy, etc. General Motors does this testing mostly at facilities located in Michigan. The testing must use generally available pump gasoline just as available from public gas stations and with nothing added. Chevron, a "Top Tier" gasoline which includes Techron as part of the additive package, is not distributed in Michigan. But, GM has Chevron fuel with Techron trucked in from the nearest state where it is available (Kentucky, I think) in order to use it in the testing process. This is entirely legitimate under testing protocols.

Now, I would expect that GM powertrain engineers know something about fuels. Do you suppose that GM would go to the effort and expense to use the Chevron gasoline if all gasolines are the same?

[Joe C.]

Re: Top Tier Gasolines

Joe------


Compatibility of one additive package with other additive packages is one of the requirements of the USEPA as well as "Top Tier" certification. I believe that mixing two different brands of gasoline will not result in degradation of effectiveness assuming that two Top Tier gasolines are mixed. However, if Top Tier gasoline is mixed with non-Top Tier gasoline, then I expect that some degradation will occur.

By the way, testing to assure that "Top Tier" gasoline meets "Top Tier" standards is quite elaborate and comprehensive.

Joe,

Thanks for replying. Your statement seems logical and reasonable. The different detergents are very different compounds, however. Sunoco is not a "Top Tier" gasoline despite the fact that it has been a well known and desirable brand for decades. Perusal of the Sunoco website reveals that although it is not "Top Tier" rated, the blend does have to satisfy minimum EPA standards for detergency. So the question is: how do these minimum detergency standards, which I assume all non-TT brands must comply with, differ from those that TT brands must meet?

In central NJ, the "quality" gasoline choices are very limited. The only TT gas available here are Shell (V-Power, "nitrogen rich"), and Exxon/Mobil (?? detergent). Other respected (but NON-TT) names available are BP/Amoco (and ARCO), all with "Invigorate", and which are all recommended by Ford for use in their vehicles. Other known brands are Gulf, Getty, Hess and Sunoco, none of which advertise or boast of any detergency richness. The vast majority of gasoline is sold by "no-name" vendors such as: Valero, Wawa, Raceway, Price Club, RaceTrak, etc.

Unfortunately, Chevron/Texaco is not sold here. Their Techron detergent is highly effective and the only way I can get it is in concentrate form. Last year I bought a case of 20 oz. bottles very reasonably online. I bought a 10,000 mile 2011 Mustang GT in early June. It suffered from an annoying light throttle stumble at the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts, and after awhile I thought that it was a normal occurrence with this 412 HP 5.0L 32 valve engine. I added a bottle of Techron to a full tank, and the stumble has disappeared. Dirty injector(s), most likely.

[Pat M.]

Re: Top Tier Gasolines

Now, I would expect that GM powertrain engineers know something about fuels. Do you suppose that GM would go to the effort and expense to use the Chevron gasoline if all gasolines are the same?

Joe, I've often thought about this regarding specifically recommended oil (synthetic Mobil 1), coolant (Dex-Cool), etc., for my C4. Do you think this is a simple marketing agreement, or do you think they actually believe one is better than another?

[Jim D.]

Re: Top Tier Gasolines

Jim------


Consider this: The automakers must conduct extensive testing on powertrain combinations in various models of cars to comply with USEPA and USDOT requirements concerning emissions, fuel economy, etc. General Motors does this testing mostly at facilities located in Michigan. The testing must use generally available pump gasoline just as available from public gas stations and with nothing added. Chevron, a "Top Tier" gasoline which includes Techron as part of the additive package, is not distributed in Michigan. But, GM has Chevron fuel with Techron trucked in from the nearest state where it is available (Kentucky, I think) in order to use it in the testing process. This is entirely legitimate under testing protocols.

Now, I would expect that GM powertrain engineers know something about fuels. Do you suppose that GM would go to the effort and expense to use the Chevron gasoline if all gasolines are the same?

Joe,

I'm just posting what independent labs. have shown and what the several people I know in the oil industry have told me. All gas must meet specific federal standards. Anything more is just hype. Think about it. Top Tier was created by the oil co.'s for advertising purposes with no specific standards to meet.
Are you sure the GM folks request Chevron with Techron be trucked in or is it possible that Chevron supplies them with all the free gas they want just for having GM recommend that you, the consumer, use it and for bragging rights that "GM uses our gas in their testing process".
If you can show me a single independent test (not by an oil co. or someone that has a monetary gain) that shows there is a single advantage in using a top tier gas, I'll eat my words. I doubt you can as none exist.

[Michael F.]

Re: Top Tier Gasolines

I believe it is hype, extra nitrogen, give me a break, I have run the cheapest price wise gas I can get in my 83 toyota supra since new, still get 24 mpg, injectors fire good spray pattern and have never been replaced, not added anything to gas such as techtron etc. and it has 385,000 miles on it.....also I use cheapest price gas in 03 zo6 and run regular (I am cheap also) it is my road car and high octane not needed to cruise at 70.....to each their own in beliefs and fuel to use.

[Joe L.]

Re: Top Tier Gasolines

Joe, I've often thought about this regarding specifically recommended oil (synthetic Mobil 1), coolant (Dex-Cool), etc., for my C4. Do you think this is a simple marketing agreement, or do you think they actually believe one is better than another?

Pat-----


For quite awhile, Mobil 1 was the only synthetic oil that met GM standard 4718M. So, I believe that's why GM at least initially recommended Mobil 1. There are others now that meet that standard.

I don't think that GM recommends a specific brand of Dex-Cool (except, likely, their own Goodwrench brand). Coolant labeled as Dex-Cool is available from all the coolant brands.

By the way, there's a new oil now recommended/required for certain GM applications. It's called "Dexos". I don't know much about it yet.

[Joe L.]

Re: Top Tier Gasolines

Joe,

I'm just posting what independent labs. have shown and what the several people I know in the oil industry have told me. All gas must meet specific federal standards. Anything more is just hype. Think about it. Top Tier was created by the oil co.'s for advertising purposes with no specific standards to meet.
Are you sure the GM folks request Chevron with Techron be trucked in or is it possible that Chevron supplies them with all the free gas they want just for having GM recommend that you, the consumer, use it and for bragging rights that "GM uses our gas in their testing process".
If you can show me a single independent test (not by an oil co. or someone that has a monetary gain) that shows there is a single advantage in using a top tier gas, I'll eat my words. I doubt you can as none exist.

Jim------


As far as I know, GM does not advertise that they use Chevron fuel for test purposes and Chevron does not advertise this fact. If either does, I have not seen it. I got my information from "insider" sources. As far as I know, GM purchases the Chevron gasoline at the bulk terminal.

All gasoline must meet certain federal standards for both base stock and additive packages. However, as far as additive packages go, gasoline has to only meet certain minimum standards. Non Top Tier gasoline typically only meets these standards, especially that sold by "no name" independents. Top Tier gasoline exceeds the minimum standards by a significant margin. Also, federal detergency standards for the additive package were reduced in the last several years.

There are definitely standards for Top Tier gasoline although I don't know if they are published. As I mentioned previously, I know for a fact that the oil companies follow elaborate and comprehensive testing on a continuing basis. I also know that any one Top Tier brand tests the product of other Top Tier gasoline brands to ensure that those brands meet the standards.

Gasoline is comprised of two basic parts: base stock and additive package. The base stock is all the same (except California) for any given octane and may come from any refinery regardless of what brand it is sold under. The additive packages are different.

One more thing: you may get "Top Tier" gasoline from any retailer but you are only guaranteed of getting Top Tier gasoline if you purchase under one of the "Top Tier" brands

[Jim D.]

Re: Top Tier Gasolines

No offense Joe but there Kool-aid "makers" and Kool-aid "drinkers". You obviously fall into the latter category. That's fine, but you have offered zero proof that a Top Tier gas is any different than any other gas but don't feel bad because independent labs can't show any difference either. Use whatever you "think" makes your car run best.

[Scott O.]

Re: Top Tier Gasolines

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Tier_Detergent_Gasoline

Link from Wikipedia explains Top Tier was a standard established by auto makers not oil companies
Scott

[Joe L.]

Re: Top Tier Gasolines

No offense Joe but there Kool-aid "makers" and Kool-aid "drinkers". You obviously fall into the latter category. That's fine, but you have offered zero proof that a Top Tier gas is any different than any other gas but don't feel bad because independent labs can't show any difference either. Use whatever you "think" makes your car run best.

Jim------

I haven't offered any proof? What proof have you offered that there's no difference between Top Tier gasoline and any other? You mention "independent lab tests". Please provide the actual independent lab reports you speak of that verify that there's no difference between Top Tier gasoline and any other.

Also, there are standards for Top Tier gasoline and these standards were developed by the automotive industry. Here they are:

http://www.toptiergas.com/deposit_control.html

Please provide proof that non Top Tier gasoline meets these standards in all cases and at all times.