10,000 mile FI driver report
As I was assembling my 63 Fuely from it's last paint job I did some inquiring about the ethanol affects on the fuel injection. Some told me that I needed viton 0 rings, others said not. I tried to order some but found that because I used the factory needle and seat, ( which is all metal) that my order wasn't big enough to mess with. I decided then that I would do my own experiment with the car as I had driven it approximately 80,000DSCN1744.jpgDSCN1745.jpg, miles in the 80's and I planned on driving it some more now that it was reassembled. In the last three plus years I have put on approximately 10000 miles. A lot have been high altitude driving on the passes in Colorado and a lot of car shows and cruizes in the Denver area. So I promised you and myself that I would tear the unit down and check on the 0 rings at approximately 10000 miles. I use non-ethanol in the city but when I take a road trip (one was 1000 miles and 6 passes in 3 days) I am subjected to what I can get, which is ethanol. I am happy to report that all of my 0 rings in my fuel meter and spider are in perfect condition with no sign of deteriation and/or swelling. I am now a believer that ethanol does not do any damage in the short(10000 miles) term and I will put another 10000 or more miles on before I check it again. The thing that I notice most is that the ethanol free gas does not have as much affect on a hot restart as the ethanol and it may get a bit more gas mileage. I am consistanly getting around 21 MPG and that is going a little faster than our 75 MPH speed limit. I love driving the car and will keep on driving it for long road trips. I have owned the car for 34 years and it has become a good friend to me. Like Jack said "drive them"
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Re: 10,000 mile FI driver report
Paul
Good Job. Great to see cars driven. Thanks for the report. I, like many, have suspected lots of the "woe is ethanol" stories you hear may not be based in fact. Your experience seems to cast doubt of some of what I have heard.
What rear end gear do you run and your thought on the gear for your highway and about town driving? Are you running the factory camshaft?
Gary -
Re: 10,000 mile FI driver report
Paul,
your experience parallels mine, except that I only use fuel with ethanol. I rebuilt my unit about 10 years ago, and have subjected it to years of between one and two thousand miles of driving, to years of almost no driving (for various reasons). I try to start it every month or two even when not driving, and it seems to like that. No problems with the fuel unit that I have seen. I invite anyone to come take a ride with me, and they can experience, first hand, how these should run.
I am not convinced that people don't have fuel issues, but it is not the ethanol in a 10% solution.
GeorgeComment
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Re: 10,000 mile FI driver report
Where do you suppose the evaporting fumes go in an F.I. during shut down? We poor fellows with carburetors have a big "stinky garage" problem, specially in an attached garage. Also, we get percolation with the fuel bubbling out of the carburetor into intake manifold on down to the crankcase.
My 63 L-76 (shp) has a number of modifications to allow it to live with the E10, but I choose to get the ethanol free gas as long as I can. I can't say I have any real serious driveability problems with E10, but it does run smoother and have less hesitation/stumble problems without it. Hot starts are better as well.
Stu FoxComment
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Re: 10,000 mile FI driver report
Paul, glad to see that you drive your car.
I have driven my 57 250 HP FI car over 4000 miles in the past 3 years with ethanol laced Shell 93 octane (RON, PON or whatever) and have never had any driving or starting problems. My experiences in hot and humid weather have been excellent with fast hot starts and no fuel smell when stored.
My unit is a very early 4360 sn 136 (POC per JD) and I believe the anti siphon valve helps eliminate fumes on shutdown.
Hot start is more reliable with the fuel cutoff valve which prevents flooding.
These cars were made to drive.Comment
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Re: 10,000 mile FI driver report
Stu,
I have no idea where the fumes go, but with the later fi cars liking a bit of a rich idle, anyway, there is always a smell of gas. It wouldn't surprise me if my car ran "better" on non-ethanol gas, but, for me, it isn't worth the trouble to worry about.
GeorgeComment
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Re: 10,000 mile FI driver report
Thanks for posting your first handed observations Paul- is it OK for people to take off their tin foil beanies now? Seems the aliens are not invading us after all.
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Re: 10,000 mile FI driver report
Personally, I'd rather consume corn products through my digestive system than my lungs.
Stu FoxComment
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Re: 10,000 mile FI driver report
There are "issues" with the E10 distillation curve that are the likely cause of percolation problems that many are experiencing (though some appear not to), and I am currently gathering data on this issue.
Beyond this the accusations that E10 is causing various fuel system degradation problems like corrosion and deterioration of gaskets and elastomeric materials is not supported by evidence.
E10 has been around for nearly 40 years and industry upgraded fuel system materials at about this time to tolerate E10, but no organic material lasts forever, and the higher temperatures they are exposed to the more quickly they deteriorate. For example, the rubber hose between the frame fuel pipe and fuel pump inlet nipple runs much hotter than the hose that connects the fuel tank nipple to the frame pipe, so the former won't last nearly as long. I'd advise changing all engine compartement rubber fuel hoses every 100K miles or 15 years, WHICHEVER COMES FIRST!!!
Most automotive elastomers are in the "nitrile" family and they degrade rapidly above about 200F. Viton is by far a better material since it can withstand in excess of 300F before is begins to rapidly deteriorate, so it is the best material choice for O-rings and any engine internal elastomeric component like valve seals.
Here's one of those live and learn stories. From 1971 to 1975 when the Air Force had me in Grand Forks, ND I stored the SWC in my parents garage in Seattle. Part of my storage procedure was to completely drain the fuel system. When I was ready to move the SWC to California in March 1975, the first thing I did was add about 3 gallons of fuel, but shortly thereafter I noticed a leak. The hose from the frame fuel pipe to the fuel pump inlet nipple had a split and was leaking fuel. It was the orignal hose installed at St. Louis and was now 12 years old and had about 112K miles.
I removed the hose and plugged the fuel pipe with my finger while my dad drove down to a local gas station owned by a high school classmate. I had to play my "little Dutch boy" routine for about 15 minutes until my dad got back with the new length of fuel hose, and once it was installed I quickly got the engine started and everything else was okay, but it was a good lesson.
It's also important to realize that because of the high tank location in C2/3 Corvettes if this hose fails - or if any other leak occurs between the tank and fuel pump inlet - the entire contents of the fuel tank will drain out, and I have since heard a number of stories about this.
Modern fuel hose materials are much better and last longer, but still not forever.
DukeLast edited by Duke W.; July 26, 2012, 11:45 AM.Comment
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Re: 10,000 mile FI driver report
Paul,
The rubber used to make the o-rings that you have is different from the rubber in the o-rings used in 1963. While the spec may be the same, compounding varies due to many reasons such as cost, EPA rules, ingredient availabitlity, etc. Specs changed in 1990's (or before) after many people complained about electric fuel pumps getting eaten up. The recipes changed. In addition, Chinese reproductions and replacement parts use these recipes, as it's highly unlikely that they don't have access to the newest formulations. It only makes sense that newer rubber components will resist ethanol better because they are newer (not old) and because the formulation is different.
While I'm here I'll also mention that some people on this forum have used the ethanol degradation of small engine fuel lines as examples. These lines are made from PVC and other vinyl compounds that are not the same as the rubber components that we are talking about.
Paul, I believe that part of your experience is due to the fact that when you get home you fill the tank with non-ethanol fuel, so the rubber components in your fuel system are only exposed for short periods of time before the ethanol is either greatly diluted or gone. Some of the rest of your good fortune is due to the compounding differences in modern rubbers.
Paul
P.S. Thanks for posting this. It's good information.Comment
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Re: 10,000 mile FI driver report
Interesting information. But more importantly, Congrats Paul, driving a Fuelie Vette for 80k + miles and still traveling. You're like the real world ROUTE 66 TV show.Comment
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Re: 10,000 mile FI driver report
Gary, my rear gear is a 3:36 out of a 67 427 car and I am running the melling camshaft equal to the 3151 or 350HP 327. Gear ratio is a little tall for bumper to bumper cruizes like the Golden Super Cruize but is great on the highway.It's a good life!
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Re: 10,000 mile FI driver report
Michael, I forgot to tell you that I took the tin foil beanie and made an insulation pad out of it that fits right under the spider. I made it out of a product called second skin that I insulated the floor with prior to carpet. This last time I put a piece of foil insulation tape around the spider pipe that lies closest to the adapter plate. I am running a 65 spider with the extra pipe plugged and that is the one closest to the adapter plate.It's a good life!
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