1965 A. O. Smith body survey - NCRS Discussion Boards

1965 A. O. Smith body survey

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  • Tony S.
    NCRS Vice President, Director Region VII & 10
    • April 30, 1981
    • 988

    1965 A. O. Smith body survey

    1965 A. O. Smith body survey - We need your help uncovering a part of Corvette history!

    Mark Francois and I need your help with some research we are conducting on 1965 Corvettes that have Dow Smith built bodies, commonly referred to as A. O. Smith bodies (“AOS”). Our NCRS web administrator John Waggoner will be posting a sticky thread soon with our survey questions regarding 1965 Corvettes with A. O. Smith bodies. If you are not sure if your 1965 Corvette has an A. O. Smith body—look at your trim tag. If the body number on your trim tag starts with the letter “A”, then you have an A. O. Smith body. St. Louis bodies have body numbers that start with the letter “S”.

    AOS bodies have some subtle but well known differences from St. Louis built bodies, but there are a number of not-so-well known anomalies as well that we have observed in unmolested, original cars. Some of these more obscure differences (anomalies) include:

    v Side cross flags emblems were not uniformly centered over the three gill side vents;
    v Dash console side tab rivets were, at times, painted though the original interior and exterior colors are the same (e.g. red exterior with red interior). Typically, these side tab rivets were only painted if the exterior and interior colors were different colors;
    v Often these dash console side tab rivets were black, but occasionally some were silver colored.
    v On some AOS non-power window cars, a power window indexing dimple on one or both door jambs between the two door hinges may exist (thought to be a St. Louis-only trait);
    v Hood release cable clips along the firewall were attached by shouldered Philips head screws instead of rivets;

    We are attempting to identify the VIN series range where these anomalies appear. In order to gather meaningful data, we need your help in obtaining as much information from as many cars as possible. If you own a 1965 Corvette with an original AOS built body, [that has its original front-end fiberglass and emblems and un-restored door jambs], please help us in our research by completing the survey once John Waggoner posts the survey form in a sticky thread at the top of the discussion board. Even if you can only provide a portion of the information that we are researching, your help is still needed and appreciated. If you are able to take quality, high resolution photos to include with your survey responses, this will enhance our research.

    Find the Survey Form Here! You can print the form and take it to your car to fill in the blanks. Come back to the form on your computer and type the data into the form so it is easily readable. Save them form to your computer then email it to Mark or Tony along with any pictures you can provide. Email addresses included on the form.

    We greatly appreciate your support, and we intend to publish our findings in a future Restorer article.
    Thank you for your help!

    Mark Francois & Tony Stein
    Last edited by John W.; July 24, 2012, 09:16 AM.
    Region VII Director (serving members in Arkansas, Kansas, Louisiana, Missouri, Oklahoma and Texas).
    Original member of the Kansas City Chapter, est'd 07/11/1982.
    Member: 1965 and 1966 National Judging Teams
    Judging Chairman--Kansas City Chapter.
    Co-Editor of the 1965 TIM and JG, 6th and 7th editions.
  • Jim D.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • June 30, 1985
    • 2884

    #2
    Re: 1965 A. O. Smith body survey

    Let me know what info. you need.

    Comment

    • Tony S.
      NCRS Vice President, Director Region VII & 10
      • April 30, 1981
      • 988

      #3
      Re: 1965 A. O. Smith body survey

      Hi Jim. Thanks for your reply. Why don't you send me your email address and I'll forward the survey form to you. I'm not exactly sure when John W. will be able to upload the form as a sticky thread (hopefully soon).

      Best,
      Tony
      Region VII Director (serving members in Arkansas, Kansas, Louisiana, Missouri, Oklahoma and Texas).
      Original member of the Kansas City Chapter, est'd 07/11/1982.
      Member: 1965 and 1966 National Judging Teams
      Judging Chairman--Kansas City Chapter.
      Co-Editor of the 1965 TIM and JG, 6th and 7th editions.

      Comment

      • Jim D.
        Extremely Frequent Poster
        • June 30, 1985
        • 2884

        #4
        Re: 1965 A. O. Smith body survey

        I just completed the survey and e-mailed it to you.

        Jim

        Comment

        • Tony S.
          NCRS Vice President, Director Region VII & 10
          • April 30, 1981
          • 988

          #5
          Re: 1965 A. O. Smith body survey

          Thanks Jim. The survey form is now uploaded. Please see my first post. John W. has embedded it into the first post on this thread. Just click on the link that read "Survey Form Here!".

          Otherwise, here's the survey:

          1965 AOS Built Corvette Body Survey:

          1. Last five digits of your serial number (VIN) _______

           
          2. Trim Tag Information
          Body Build date:_______________
          Style: ______________ Body No.: __________________
          Trim: ______________ Paint: __________________

          3. Location of your side cross flag emblems:
          4. Door Jambs:
          a. For non-power window cars, does your AOS door jamb between the two door hinges have a power window indexing dimple in it? [___ ] Yes or [___ ] No.

          b. For cars with body and interior the same color, for example, blue/blue, red/red, black/black, maroon/maroon, green/green, are the 5 rivets that attach each side of your dash console to the door jamb painted body color? Note: it is important that this area be factory original.
          Painted: [___ ] or Unpainted: [___ ].

          c. Are the dash console side tabs attached with black or silver rivets?
          Black rivets: [___ ]; Silver rivets: [___ ].

          5. Engine Bay metal clips:
          a. Along the firewall, above the wiper motor, the hood release cable rests in a series of metal clips. Please note how these clips are attached to the body:

          Attached by: [___ ] Shouldered Philips screws; or [___ ] Rivets.

          Thank you for your willingness to help advance our understanding of these 1965 Corvette AOS body variations. We intend to publish our survey findings and conclusions after we have gathered sufficient data. Please forward your survey responses to either of us:

          Contact information:
          Mark Francois
          NCRS No. 26312
          Email: MarkFrancois1@gmail.com

          or

          Tony Stein
          NCRS No. 4600
          email: anthonystein@att.net

          Option: Please consider giving us your contact information in case we have any follow up questions. Your contact information will remain strictly confidential. Thanks.
          Region VII Director (serving members in Arkansas, Kansas, Louisiana, Missouri, Oklahoma and Texas).
          Original member of the Kansas City Chapter, est'd 07/11/1982.
          Member: 1965 and 1966 National Judging Teams
          Judging Chairman--Kansas City Chapter.
          Co-Editor of the 1965 TIM and JG, 6th and 7th editions.

          Comment

          • John H.
            Beyond Control Poster
            • December 1, 1997
            • 16513

            #6
            Re: 1965 A. O. Smith body survey

            Tony -

            The contrasting paint operation on the main instrument panel end tabs and the rivets securing them to the body are unrelated to whether the body is A.O. Smith or St. Louis; the main instrument panel and its end tab rivets were installed at St. Louis, and if the end tabs required exterior color painting, that was done in Final Paint Repair at St. Louis on the finished car. There was no instrument panel in an A.O. Smith-bodied car when it arrived from Ionia.

            Comment

            • Tony S.
              NCRS Vice President, Director Region VII & 10
              • April 30, 1981
              • 988

              #7
              Re: 1965 A. O. Smith body survey

              John, yes, that's true, but we included it in the survey anyway because we have two early cars so far that have the same exterior and interior colors (red/red cars), but on one side the 5 rivets are painted and on the other, they are unpainted. Your comment is also applicable to black vs. silver rivets too, but that is something that we also want to sample and see what sample size we can accumulate.

              Thanks for your comment. Tony
              Region VII Director (serving members in Arkansas, Kansas, Louisiana, Missouri, Oklahoma and Texas).
              Original member of the Kansas City Chapter, est'd 07/11/1982.
              Member: 1965 and 1966 National Judging Teams
              Judging Chairman--Kansas City Chapter.
              Co-Editor of the 1965 TIM and JG, 6th and 7th editions.

              Comment

              • Mike G.
                Expired
                • January 1, 1991
                • 418

                #8
                Re: 1965 A. O. Smith body survey

                Hey this is great! My side flags are between the first and second gill vent & I had thought it was the work of Bubba. I'll complete the survey and shoot it to you.

                Mike '65 Coupe 02927

                Comment

                • Tony S.
                  NCRS Vice President, Director Region VII & 10
                  • April 30, 1981
                  • 988

                  #9
                  Re: 1965 A. O. Smith body survey

                  Thanks Mike. We appreciate it. You obviously have an early car. We are trying to determine when the change occurred between the front shifted side emblem and the centered emblem. Yours is definitely early and original.

                  Tony
                  Region VII Director (serving members in Arkansas, Kansas, Louisiana, Missouri, Oklahoma and Texas).
                  Original member of the Kansas City Chapter, est'd 07/11/1982.
                  Member: 1965 and 1966 National Judging Teams
                  Judging Chairman--Kansas City Chapter.
                  Co-Editor of the 1965 TIM and JG, 6th and 7th editions.

                  Comment

                  • Gene M.
                    Extremely Frequent Poster
                    • April 1, 1985
                    • 4232

                    #10
                    Re: 1965 A. O. Smith body survey

                    My 65 coupe is #4403. Sorry I'm not good with forms but here is info you requested.
                    Side cross flags emblems are centered between 1st and 2nd gill side vents;
                    Dash console side tabs and rivets are painted blue, original interior and exterior colors are the same.
                    Non-power window car, and yes dimple on both door jambs.
                    Hood release cable clips along the firewall were attached by Philips head screws but no shoulders.

                    One thing you do not ask is about the front end belt line, The AO Smith vs the St Louis are assembled differently (fixtures) and it yields a straight line on AO Smith and a bowed outward line on the St Louis cars. I would consider this a more important issue of the AO Smith cars than questions asked since it is quite noticeable with original cars side by side.

                    Comment

                    • James W.
                      Extremely Frequent Poster
                      • December 1, 1990
                      • 2655

                      #11
                      Re: 1965 A. O. Smith body survey

                      Tony,

                      My '65 coupe VIN 22095 is an AO Smith bodied car. Unfortunately it was repainted in 1977 otherwise it is all original with no-hit body. I will complete the survey and send it in.

                      Regards,

                      James West

                      Comment

                      • Scott S.
                        Extremely Frequent Poster
                        • September 11, 2009
                        • 1961

                        #12
                        Re: 1965 A. O. Smith body survey

                        Originally posted by Gene Manno (8571)
                        One thing you do not ask is about the front end belt line, The AO Smith vs the St Louis are assembled differently (fixtures) and it yields a straight line on AO Smith and a bowed outward line on the St Louis cars. I would consider this a more important issue of the AO Smith cars than questions asked since it is quite noticeable with original cars side by side.
                        Gene,

                        Could you explain this further, and do you have photos that would demonstrate what you're referring to? Or can you direct me to photos in any of the restoration books that would show what you're talking about here?

                        Comment

                        • Gene M.
                          Extremely Frequent Poster
                          • April 1, 1985
                          • 4232

                          #13
                          Re: 1965 A. O. Smith body survey

                          Scott,
                          It has to do about the belt line profiles as I attempted to explain. I present this in the Advanced Judges Classes at the regionals and national. Need to have ya in person in front of two cars both AO Smith and St Louis builds to illustrate side by side comparison to understand the differences. Difficult for me to put in words that means anything. Sorry I don't know of any books that cover this.

                          Comment

                          • Tony S.
                            NCRS Vice President, Director Region VII & 10
                            • April 30, 1981
                            • 988

                            #14
                            Re: 1965 A. O. Smith body survey

                            Gene. I am aware of the differences between the St. Louis body construction and the A.O.S. body construction system. The A.O.S. bodies are a bit "thinner at the front belt line" than the St. Louis cars. It's just too difficult to address that in a survey.

                            I have your survey form already. What we have found is that somewhere between car no. 4403 (your car) and car no. 8797, the side emblem was moved from being centered between the front and center gill to being centered directly over the middle gill.

                            It would be really great to get more responses from '65 A.O.S. owners whose cars are somewhere between cars 4403 and 8797. That will help us tighten down our findings. If anyone knows of other '65 A.O.S. cars out there falling in that range, your help will be much appreciated.

                            Best,
                            Tony
                            Region VII Director (serving members in Arkansas, Kansas, Louisiana, Missouri, Oklahoma and Texas).
                            Original member of the Kansas City Chapter, est'd 07/11/1982.
                            Member: 1965 and 1966 National Judging Teams
                            Judging Chairman--Kansas City Chapter.
                            Co-Editor of the 1965 TIM and JG, 6th and 7th editions.

                            Comment

                            • Wayne W.
                              Extremely Frequent Poster
                              • April 30, 1982
                              • 3605

                              #15
                              Re: 1965 A. O. Smith body survey

                              I think this has much to do with the difference in construction method as it does with the actual jig that the front was built in. The AOS was a complete unit, where the St. Louis front was without side fenders. The SL sides were mudded and slapped on the body after the front was installed. Thus a large variation in side detail on the SL body.

                              Comment

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