red/brown "jelly" in fuel

[Paul P.]

Hi guys,
I wonder if you can help me here?

Yesterday I had to get my 62 vette towed to my mechanic after it started to splutter and just died.

I immediately thought that I had run out of fuel and cursed my fuel gauge. however, when I got under the bonnet I found that the fuel filter bowl resembled a 1970's Lava Lamp. It had red/brown blobs floating around in side it.

Unfortunately some of these blobs had adhered to the fuel filter and completely clogged the fuel line, so she had to be towed and the filter replaced and fuel line "blown out".

I have two working theories as to what the blobs are and what caused them.

1. I had gotten ethanol laced fuel from a garage that I not normally go to (I only eve use Shell 98 octane V-Power, an usually from the same garage), and this has started stripping the tank of it's sealant.
2. I put a bottle of Wynn's Spitfire fuel conditioner in the tank on Thursday (It's saturday here in Australia) and this has caused the build up of fuel varnish to be broken down and removed from the tank, and this is what the blobs are.

I'm tending to veer towards theory 2 because:
a. this is lore likely
b. this will not necessitate me removing the tank and repairing it.

can anyone confirm either theory based on experience or factual knowledge.

I read a lot about ethanol cause real problems with older car's fuel systems, both here and elsewhere on the web, but I'd prefer it if someone is going to go down the ethanol theory road that they have factual evidence for their reasoning.

cheers,
Paul

[Terry D.]

Re: red/brown "jelly" in fuel

How long have you had the car? Are your fuel lines and tank original? Do you know if the car ever sat for a long period of time? First thing I would do is drain some fuel from the tank at the hose coming out of the tank to see if problem is in the tank or the fuel line itself. Either way I would pull the tank, not that big of a job, and check the inside and probably replace it or at the least have it flushed out. I may be wrong but I don't think there is any sealer inside. After a few more tows the new tank will have paid for itself. Just some thoughts
Terry

[Norm B.]

Re: red/brown "jelly" in fuel

The first thing that came to my mind was "How old is the fuel in the tank?" If it has been there for several months without any kind of fuel stabilizer the whole tankful could have gone bad. Whenever I store any of my gasoline powered vehicles or tools for the winter here I use fuel stabilizer. Gasoline has a much shorter shelf life these days, it's not like the old days when fuel would stay fresh for months and months on end.

[Duke W.]

Re: red/brown "jelly" in fuel

Note to all: Australia uses RON ratings so their "98" is equivalent to our 93 PON.

The debris may be rust. Who knows on a 50-year old car, unless you are the original owner and have documented the entire service and repair history of the car.

My recommendation is to remove the tank for a thorough inspection and repair, if necessary.

In the USA there are some "coating" repairs that can be done to extend the service life of rusted tanks.

Drive the car enough to consume at least one tank of fuel per year, and protect it from condensing humidity, which is best done by keeping the car in a garage when it's not in use.

Duke

[Paul P.]

Re: red/brown "jelly" in fuel

Thanks Terry, Norm and Duke.
I bought it off a guy the immigrated to Australia some 10 years ago, and he bought it from a guy that did the restoration, a few years before that. The guy that did the resto lived in Colarado, and the guy I bought it off lived in Southern California before moving to Australia. I've had the car for 18 months.

I can tell you that I drive her just about once a fortnight, if not once a week (it winter now and the coldest it has gotten is 11 degrees Celsius - 52 Farenheit). I don't know exactly how often the previous owner drove her, but I know they only drive her for hour long trips in the country, and that in the 10-or-so years he haed her he had only put on 4000 miles.

The tank looks almost brand new from the top, I recently had to adjust the fuel level sender as it it was showing 1/4 full when empty, so I'm assuming it as replaced in the restoration.

Duke, I don't hink it is rust, as the stuff is really like jelly (or jello as you guys say), even a bit softer. It is more an orange/red colour than brown.

I get the impression from all you guys, that adding anything to the tank isn't going to cause the type of outcome that I've encountered, and that I should remove the tank and clean it, or repair/replace it, right?

if that isthe case, can anyone point me to other forum threads that have a good explanation on how to do this, please?

Paul

[Russ S.]

Re: red/brown "jelly" in fuel

Just a thought but what about using a borescope to look inside the tank?

[Paul P.]

Re: red/brown "jelly" in fuel

Hi Russ,
forgive my ignorance, but what is a boroscope? are they, or their equivalent, available in Australia?

[Tom P.]

Re: red/brown "jelly" in fuel

Simple might be best.

Drain the tank and flush the lines, put some fresh gas in and see what happens.

Old cars that don't get driven can have all sorts of issues.

They don't often give us the answers we are looking for.

[Paul P.]

Re: red/brown "jelly" in fuel

Hey Tom,
what is the best way to flush the lines?

[Russ S.]

Re: red/brown "jelly" in fuel

Hi Russ,
forgive my ignorance, but what is a boroscope? are they, or their equivalent, available in Australia?

Paul, Check out this link. Russ www.gradientlens.com/

[Paul P.]

Re: red/brown "jelly" in fuel

Ta Russ.
I'llcheck them out.
Paul

[Norm B.]

Re: red/brown "jelly" in fuel

Hmmm! I am not real familiar on how the C2 tanks are configured but I am going to do a bit of speculating here anyway.

First of all what you describe sounds exactly like some of the crap I have taken out of many lawn tractor and snowblower fuel tanks that have sat outside for extended periods. When I let some of them settle overnight in a glass jar I get as much as 2/3 water on the bottom and often the blobs that you described in the remaining fuel on top. Often it does not even smell like gasoline. I wish I still had some pictures I could attach but I did a bit of a purge a few weeks ago. Since the previous owner drove it little I am also assuming it rarely got a fresh tank of gas, so given that the tank is at least 10+ years old who knows what horrors may be lurking on the bottom of that tank. Now, you also stated that "I recently had to adjust the fuel level sender as it it was showing 1/4 full when empty, so I'm assuming it as replaced in the restoration."

I am speculating that you have a bunch of crud on the bottom of your tank and that in adjusting your sender you have somehow managed to get your pick up tube into that crud and also could have dislodged any screen that may have been on it.

I think Tom hit the nail on the head, drain the tank first and see what you get.

[Paul P.]

Re: red/brown "jelly" in fuel

Norm,
that is very interesting I'll take a pic and post it here....really should have done that originally, i guess

I think you may be very right re circumstances in which this has appeared.

I'll drain teh tank and check out the results.

I'll post back here the outcomes.

I'm now also thinking that if there is crud, there'll be water and once that it all cleared that my sender would need re-adjusting back to where it was, because there could be 1/4 of a tank of water in the bottom!

I guess I have nothing else to do on a Winter's Sunday arvo anyway

[Paul P.]

Re: red/brown "jelly" in fuel

OK, here's the result of my afternoon's activities.
attached are two pics of the offending goo, for your reference.
2012-07-22 15.51.42.jpg 2012-07-22 15.52.23.jpg

I decided to try to pump the fuel our from the hole where the sending unit is located, because I could:
a) see what is in the tank with a torch
b) get out all of the fuel with a syphon pump, rather than draining it from the bottom, as there would still be liquid in the tank that would needed to be pumped out anyway.

So, when I take the tank cover off and look at the sending unit there is this red/brown/orange sealant around it...... and I remember that I used this to seal the tank when I adjusted the fuel level sender.

I think I may have found my answer!

I decided to remove the unit, clean it up and also check the tank.

On removal of the unit and inspection of the tank - it is perfect. So clean and some small amount of small specs of dirt (probably from me fooling around), and there is no orange goo to be found.

I then decide to clean up the unit that attaches to the tank and use fuel (to test the effect). The sealant starts to go very soft very quickly!

SO the issue is that I used the wrong sealant when I adjusted the level gauge initially and this is what was in my fuel.

I cleaned it all away, from the unit and well as the tank. Decided to get a cork sheet from my local auto parts retailer and discovered a fuel resistant goo that dries hard for the creation of gaskets for carby's, fuel tanks, etc.

I have used this and completed the job.

I removed the fuel bowl and discarded the orange goo floating in there, then I kicked the girl over and she started.

Some more goo came throughout the fuel lines, but I think with a few more cycles of throwing the stuff away from the filer bowl, then this will disappear, and my problem will be solved.

Paul

[Russ S.]

Re: red/brown "jelly" in fuel

OK, here's the result of my afternoon's activities.
attached are two pics of the offending goo, for your reference.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]40788[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]40789[/ATTACH]

I decided to try to pump the fuel our from the hole where the sending unit is located, because I could:
a) see what is in the tank with a torch
b) get out all of the fuel with a syphon pump, rather than draining it from the bottom, as there would still be liquid in the tank that would needed to be pumped out anyway.

So, when I take the tank cover off and look at the sending unit there is this red/brown/orange sealant around it...... and I remember that I used this to seal the tank when I adjusted the fuel level sender.

I think I may have found my answer!

I decided to remove the unit, clean it up and also check the tank.

On removal of the unit and inspection of the tank - it is perfect. So clean and some small amount of small specs of dirt (probably from me fooling around), and there is no orange goo to be found.

I then decide to clean up the unit that attaches to the tank and use fuel (to test the effect). The sealant starts to go very soft very quickly!

SO the issue is that I used the wrong sealant when I adjusted the level gauge initially and this is what was in my fuel.

I cleaned it all away, from the unit and well as the tank. Decided to get a cork sheet from my local auto parts retailer and discovered a fuel resistant goo that dries hard for the creation of gaskets for carby's, fuel tanks, etc.

I have used this and completed the job.

I removed the fuel bowl and discarded the orange goo floating in there, then I kicked the girl over and she started.

Some more goo came throughout the fuel lines, but I think with a few more cycles of throwing the stuff away from the filer bowl, then this will disappear, and my problem will be solved.

Paul

Paul, I sure hope by "torch" you mean a light and not a flame!!!!!!!!!