Restoration: frame-up or frame off dilemma ??

**Joe L.** · June 6, 2012, 11:22 PM

Re: Restoration: frame-up or frame off dilemma ??

Originally posted by Marc Boisclair (23060)

Seeking opinions on this big dilemma of mine...

72 LT-1 Convt is to enter the Corvette shop very soon for a full restoration. Great solid driver car with strong mechanics, a vg frame (no rust or bad surprises) & I have most original components incl complete smog system. Complete Restoration will include body work on the front clip, new paint, etc

My dilemma is whether to go for a full frame-off of a frame-on restoration ?? Goal is to bring the car to ``Top Flight`` status and still use it for those nice rides I like to do...

Some things I've seen over the years in this hobby are:

Few owners continued to drive their freshly restored ``frame-off`` Corvette...For most of them it became a ``garage/trailer Queen`` or else taken out only to Car Shows & als (which I dont like & dont intend to do)

Regularly driven ``Top Flight`` Corvettes arent common...

``it's less scary to drive around in a frame-on restored Corvette``

Nice driven Corvettes arent on-par with restored ones...

I'm seeking opinions on both options as I plan to still drive around this LT-1 convertible after the restoration. This car is a lot of fun & was built to be driven...

THX to all, Mk

Marc------

Unless the body needs to be separated from the frame (e.g. frame repair, etc.), I have always in the past and always will in the future recommend a FRAME-ON restoration.

**Michael D.** · June 7, 2012, 06:56 AM

Re: Restoration: frame-up or frame off dilemma ??

Originally posted by Joe Lucia (12484)

...Unless the body needs to be separated from the frame...FRAME-ON restoration...

I agree.

**Alan S.** · June 7, 2012, 07:22 AM

Re: Restoration: frame-up or frame off dilemma ??

Hi Marc,
I think the good thing about an off the frame restoration is it allows you to access every square inch and every part of the car. The bad thing about an off the frame restoration is it allows you to access every square inch and part of the car. While an on frame restoration is a challenge, I think an off the frame restoration takes even more knowledge, time, money, and dedication.
I think many people find that when doing an on frame restoration they end up being only a few steps from being able to lift the body.
From your description of your car and your future plans for it I think leaving the body on the frame is a good choice for you.
I do think there are many levels of both off frame and on frame restorations, so you need to be very careful that the shop understands just what your expectations are; and also what is going to be required from you in the form of $, and also patience.
Good Luck!
Regards,
Alan

PS: Doing an off frame can be a wonderful experience!

**John M.** · June 7, 2012, 10:13 AM

Re: Restoration: frame-up or frame off dilemma ??

I did a frame on "refreshment" on my 69 and would never consider it again. I've done 2 frame offs on C2s on my own and helped on two others and enjoyed the work on every one. Just looking at the chassis with the body removed was all I needed to know that it was the right decision. Working on all that chassis stuff was a pleasure whereas with the 69 it was a chore. Replacing the gas line was especially challenging (read PIA).
As far as the expense goes you can spend as much as you want either way.

**Dan H.** · June 7, 2012, 10:34 AM

Re: Restoration: frame-up or frame off dilemma ??

Originally posted by John McRae (30025)

I did a frame on "refreshment" on my 69 and would never consider it again. I've done 2 frame offs on C2s on my own and helped on two others and enjoyed the work on every one. Just looking at the chassis with the body removed was all I needed to know that it was the right decision. Working on all that chassis stuff was a pleasure whereas with the 69 it was a chore. Replacing the gas line was especially challenging (read PIA).
As far as the expense goes you can spend as much as you want either way.

Totally agree on the satisfation of the frame off vrs on concept. Your access to everything is of a huge value, also helps find things not otherwise found. On one of my 64 Coupes, I found the body mount bolt in front of the left rear wheel had never been installed and the cushion on the frame was also missing from the factory! It also decreases the time spent on ones back with crud dropping in your eyes!!!
Good luck!
Dan

**Michael B.** · June 7, 2012, 11:15 AM

Re: Restoration: frame-up or frame off dilemma ??

Hi Marc,

Frame off does not mean garage queen. That's always a personal decision. After frame off for me there were 3 new rules.

1. No winter driving any more.
2. No driving in rain (intentionally).
3. NO MALLS

I had no choice due to frame damage (winter salt on roads) but to do a frame off, but like others after having access to the frame, being able to see and correct crack in the donor chassis, over weld where it made sense, clean up where it would have been otherwise impossible, changing every pipe (for the last time). Took many years and even with me doing all the work there was a lot of expense, I am really happy I did it this way.

If the car is already in solid condition you could easily loose some of it's originality by going frame off. Things are going to break, fall off, dis-integrate when you do this. Enjoy your car. Don't do something you don't absolutely have to.

Hope that helps.

Michael B.

**Domenic T.** · June 7, 2012, 11:18 AM

Re: Restoration: frame-up or frame off dilemma ??

Marc,
The frame off is usually something that the owner does himself as he can do most of it. Sending it to a shop can rob you of the experiance the guys are describing.
I am doing a frame off and find myself standing there just looking at my work. I think the frame off is the challenge the owner makes to show his ability to do so.
I'm not saying that that's the only reason as some want it totally done (frame off) even if they do not participate in the restoration.

There are frame off restorations and ther are frame off restorations that do EVERY part & thing.

I vote that you keep the frame on if you are sending it out and that will eliminate headaches you may have with the shop and let you take those wonderfull drives much sooner.

DOM

**Thomas H.** · June 7, 2012, 11:56 AM

Re: Restoration: frame-up or frame off dilemma ??

What a timely post!

Last night I took my 71 LS5 to our chapter meeting and discussed with a few members doing a body off starting this fall. I had not driven the car since last Sept and every time I do get a chance to drive it I am amazed at how tight and rattle free it is. I made this comment to a fellow member and his reply was that once you pull the body, you will have rattles when it goes back together. I tend to disagree, but...........

I bought the car a while back and it was mechanically tired when I got it. I spent the better part of two summers going through it mechanically from stem to stern, engine, trans, rear, suspension, brakes, etc.... It is now a turn key driver. The interior is all original and in surprisingly good shape, but the paint is hurting. It is the definition of a 10-footer. At one point in it's life it was repainted, but it is now checking across most of the body and I can tell the right front has had some glass work done to it.

I am also wrestling with the body on or off decision and right now I'm leaning towards a body off as I am a glutin for punishment and like projects. My plan would be to pull the body in late summer, get it to a local shop to get the glass work done. While that is done, I can strip it down to the frame and get that painted, then start reassembly. Maybe by late winter get the body and frame back together and into the paint shop then be back on the road with it in the early summer (dreaming, I know, but you have to shoot for some sort of schedule). The guy that would do the glass works exclusively on Corvettes and he recommended the painter. I would like to have it judged in the fall of 2013, but will drive it. I've had the garage queens and I'm done with that. I like to drive my cars when I get the opportunity.

One other concern I have is the car does show some evidence of bird cage issues especially around the top corners of the windshield. The bottom sections down to the body mounts are solid and show very little in the way of rust so I'm hoping it is just in the upper part of the cage where I have easy access for repair. Of course with my luck, this proably isn't the case, but I won't know until it starts coming apart. I was hoping I could get an inspection camera inside the cage to check the areas below the tops of the fenders. If there are problems there, the the job just leaped in magnititude.

Or, I could just keep it as is and continue to enjoy it as a solid driver. But I still need to line up a project for next winter..................... Decisions, dilemmas, I can't decide what to do, but it is all good fun...........

Tom

**John H.** · June 7, 2012, 12:01 PM

Re: Restoration: frame-up or frame off dilemma ??

Originally posted by Marc Boisclair (23060)

Regularly driven ``Top Flight`` Corvettes arent common...

That may be true for some folks, but not for me. I've done six body-off Corvette restorations over the years (plus building three Cobra replicas and a tube-frame Grand Sport replica), and I drove them all. I Top-Flighted my '57 in 1998, then drove it 5,000 miles over the next 5 years before selling it. I Top-Flighted my '67 in 2004, and have been driving it ever since. I did the restorations and went after the ribbons as a matter of personal satisfaction, not to "flip" them or store them forever. Turn the key and drive them, and don't worry about it.

**Jim M.** · June 7, 2012, 12:42 PM

Re: Restoration: frame-up or frame off dilemma ??

Marc, Here's my take on this. I think it all comes down to you and your personality. I did a frame-on resto on my 69 coupe because I knew that if I did a frame off and went through every nut and bolt, I would fret over every piece of dirt that got on the underside of the car and would want to keep it looking like new. In other words, I would be washing and cleaning the underside all the time and most likely would never take it out of the garage if there was the remotest chance of a rain shower and living here in the Northwest....well, you get my drift. But that's just me. Others do a frame off, drive them in all kinds of weather and don't worry whether it still looks like a fresh frame-off resto. You know yourself better then anyone, so decide how you feel about that and go for it, either way you choose is perfectly OK, just do what's best for you. jim

**Pat M.** · June 7, 2012, 01:15 PM

Re: Restoration: frame-up or frame off dilemma ??

Originally posted by John Hinckley (29964)

I did the restorations and went after the ribbons as a matter of personal satisfaction, not to "flip" them or store them forever. Turn the key and drive them, and don't worry about it.

Agreed. I drive my Duntov 70 at least once a week, and I would never think that a car of mine was "too nice" to drive.

**Marc B.** · June 8, 2012, 07:06 AM

Re: Restoration: frame-up or frame off dilemma ??

A lot of good information & related experiences here, sure enough it gives me a clearer picture. I'll stick to my first idea which was frame-on resto. Frame has been very well taken care of over the years (covered with undercoating) and most probably only needs refinishing.
Thanks to all, Mk

Restoration: frame-up or frame off dilemma ??

Restoration: frame-up or frame off dilemma ??

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