watch what you buy

[Clem Z.]

i found this on the vetteheads website. http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/ne...h-1381702.html

[Richard E.]

Re: watch what you buy

I bet alot of cars,on close inspection,are a little "funny".When the prices start back down and people start to question their
"high end" auction buys they discover their "original" cars aren't so original after all...Buyer beware...

[Domenic T.]

Re: watch what you buy

Clem,
I have a 67 coupe and I just had all the #s on the frame checked by a vin inspector before I put the body back on.

Just to be safe.

DOM

[Joe L.]

Re: watch what you buy

i found this on the vetteheads website. http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/ne...h-1381702.html

clem------


I think that Dan Mershon is, basically, an honest guy, at least as honest as a used car dealer can be. His criticism of the "raid" is probably at least partially justified. It sounds to me like it was "over-done" and I do believe that Dan Mershon would have co-operated with just a few investigators.

However, as I've said MANY times before, anyone that buys one of these cars is nuts if they don't do a complete check of the car's "pedigree". That means checking all the VIN derivatives on the car------engine, transmission, and, most importantly, FRAME----as well as a thorough inspection of the car's VIN plate and number. If the frame number is missing or if it does not match the VIN, there better be a BONAFIDE bill of sale for a replacement frame that comes with the car and one that can be VERIFIED.

If there are ANY discrepancies that can't be accounted for, FORGET THE CAR NO MATTER HOW GOOD OF A DEAL IT IS OR HOW MUCH YOU LIKE THE CAR. PERIOD.

Many of these cars which are today high value "collector cars" and most especially Corvettes have "checkered" histories. Their "skeletons" have remained "in the closet" for years but don't count on them staying there forever.

[Paul J.]

Re: watch what you buy

I think that Dan Mershon is, basically, an honest guy, at least as honest as a used car dealer can be. His criticism of the "raid" is probably at least partially justified. It sounds to me like it was "over-done" and I do believe that Dan Mershon would have co-operated with just a few investigators.

This looks like a witch hunt. There must be more to it than what we've been told.

[Dick W.]

Re: watch what you buy

IL can get very aggressive. I have had the misfortune of dealing with them. My L/88 was in a shop in Southern IL when their Gestapo, er DMV came in to do a regular inspection. Early on my car had the frame replaced due to an accident and there were no numbers on the frame. The engine pad was blank as the original engine was gone (this was the fifth different engine in the car). I had to hire an attorney and get my local DMV involved to clear the mess up.

In the late '80's or early '90's they showed up at Bloomington Gold and gave several vendor a large raft of **** about selling engine blocks that had no VIN stamps on them. They went as far as to confiscate blocks.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: watch what you buy

IL can get very aggressive. I have had the misfortune of dealing with them. My L/88 was in a shop in Southern IL when their Gestapo, er DMV came in to do a regular inspection. Early on my car had the frame replaced due to an accident and there were no numbers on the frame. The engine pad was blank as the original engine was gone (this was the fifth different engine in the car). I had to hire an attorney and get my local DMV involved to clear the mess up.

In the late '80's or early '90's they showed up at Bloomington Gold and gave several vendor a large raft of **** about selling engine blocks that had no VIN stamps on them. They went as far as to confiscate blocks.

I also remember when the were at Bloomington. They also took all the frames that didn't have a title. I had to buy back a 67 Corvette because Connecticut would not title it because the block did not match the frame #.

[Larry M.]

Re: watch what you buy

IL can get very aggressive. I have had the misfortune of dealing with them. My L/88 was in a shop in Southern IL when their Gestapo, er DMV came in to do a regular inspection. Early on my car had the frame replaced due to an accident and there were no numbers on the frame. The engine pad was blank as the original engine was gone (this was the fifth different engine in the car). I had to hire an attorney and get my local DMV involved to clear the mess up.

In the late '80's or early '90's they showed up at Bloomington Gold and gave several vendor a large raft of **** about selling engine blocks that had no VIN stamps on them. They went as far as to confiscate blocks.

Mershon's is in Springfield OHIO. But then, all these Midwestern states look the same

Larry

[Gene M.]

Re: watch what you buy

After reading Clem's article posting I wonder if it is LESS criminal to restamp an engine block verse a wrong VIN or no VIN at all. Confiscation of ones car or part of it is scary. This is unclear as what would occur with a crate engine that has no VIN, installed in a vette if the Gestapo, er DMV police pay a visit.

Or even worse yet what about replacing a rotted out frame?

[Gary C.]

Re: watch what you buy

Gene,

Interesting that you would ask those specific questions. Missouri as an example has an antiquated law on their books that requires any major component replacement part be stamped by a Law Officer. This means transmissions, crate engines, etc. An over zealous State Trooper took it upon himself to make an example out of a restoration shop over restoration motors. Result was disastrous for the shop and the car owners whose cars were in the shop undergoing restoration.

It's highly doubtful that new car dealers in Missouri have warranty replacement transmissions or engines stamped according to the law.

Also, street rods and customs are in violation with the letter of the Missouri law. From SEMA and other research there are many States with these types of laws on their books.

Some States, such as Texas, Nebraska and others have passed updated laws in the last couple of years. Doesn't mean their new laws are perfect for street rods, customs and restorations, but the laws are a step in the right direction.

Good information about classic car State laws on this website http://www.semasan.com/page.asp?cont...tpage&g=semaga

JMTCW,

Gary
....

[Bruce B.]

Re: watch what you buy

I heard of a guy who went through a similar situation with ATF, FBi and a number of other federal organizations.
After the raid on his home and business, assets were siezed (cash, vehicles, stc) and never returned .
The 15 page affidavid detailed everything from drugs, firearms, money laundering and motor vehicle violations.
It's been around 3 years and no indictments, no nothing, except unbelieveable legal bills.

[Gene M.]

Re: watch what you buy

Gary,
Very interesting about a cop restamping VIN's. I wonder if NCRS will (in the future) require documents to verify that. Many states it is illegal to do anything to VIN identifications. That includes block stamping. This posting makes me feel even stronger about not touching anything that contains the VIN identification. Fines and legal fees are not in my interest.

This whole issue makes me never want to be in the market for a classic car again. Good thing I already have all the cars I need and I know what they are.

[Paul J.]

Re: watch what you buy

I heard of a guy who went through a similar situation with ATF, FBi and a number of other federal organizations.
After the raid on his home and business, assets were siezed (cash, vehicles, stc) and never returned .
The 15 page affidavid detailed everything from drugs, firearms, money laundering and motor vehicle violations.
It's been around 3 years and no indictments, no nothing, except unbelieveable legal bills.

You mentioned drugs. Many states have zero tolerance for illegal drugs. You've been on this forum a while so you've seen my dark blue 95 Chevy Cheyenne (beautiful truck). That, along with my Cerwin Vega E715's, my weedeater, the spare bedroom furniture, several tables, chairs, etc. all were siezed because illegal drugs were present either in the vehicle or the home. I purchased them at auction for a fraction of what thier value was.

However, it is interesting that no indictments have been handed down.

[Dick W.]

Re: watch what you buy

You mentioned drugs. Many states have zero tolerance for illegal drugs. You've been on this forum a while so you've seen my dark blue 95 Chevy Cheyenne (beautiful truck). That, along with my Cerwin Vega E715's, my weedeater, the spare bedroom furniture, several tables, chairs, etc. all were siezed because illegal drugs were present either in the vehicle or the home.

However, it is interesting that no indictments have been handed down.

That is done quite often. There was a very large house, furnishings, about a dozen cars, and what cash was in the bank seized from a gentleman here before he was even served with a warrant. The judge ordered the property seized and sold and it happened. Ultimately he was arrested, tried and convicted, but that was after the fact.

The court can issue claim and delivery papers (I think that is the correct term), wait the specified time on the papers, no action on the owners part, and they can and will sell property.

[Paul J.]

Re: watch what you buy

This posting makes me feel even stronger about not touching anything that contains the VIN identification. Fines and legal fees are not in my interest.

Go back to your Post #9. You had it right. Apparently in Ohio if the VIN stampings are not there or don't match, the vehicle is suspect. This implies that if you replace or recreate them you won't be hassled. So much for the moral and friendly disclosure of replacement blocks and frames (at least in Ohio).

This is why I think that there is something about this that we don't know.