Re: Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels
If you don't worry about balancing, do you ever drive the car?
If you don't worry about balancing, do you ever drive the car?
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Re: Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels
Never got a knowledgeable answer as to whether '67 wheels/tires should be balanced with spindle adaptor in hub center or with lug nuts. Would appreciate info if you know.
ThanksComment
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Re: Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels
I don't think it matters enough to worry about.
All of the lug-centric wheels on my cars were balanced with hub-centric equipment. If there is a problem with their balance, it's so subtle my Seat-Of-The-Pants-O-Meter can't detect it.
JimComment
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Re: Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels
When I put original hub caps on my 62 for judging I did not want to spend the money to find original steel wheels. I purchased 4 wheels from Corvette Central which accepted the hub caps. I then used my Harbor freight tire changer and my hand me down sears bubble balancer to balance them. I drive the car almost every day during the summer and on sunny days during the winter including high speed freeway driving. It runs as smooth as any of my new cars. Was I surprised? a little but my point is we can get carried away way with trying to be perfect.
JeffComment
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Re: Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels
I understand, Jeff.
I'm coming at it from the standpoint of a frame-off restoration. The '67 Rally wheel was a one-year part. When I put the car back together, I'm going to have to get the wheels balanced one way or the other. If one way is better than the other, and the only difference is asking the guy to use a hub-adapter or not, then why not do it the right way?Comment
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Re: Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels
NASCAR ran 200+ MPH for many years on bubble balanced tires.Comment
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Re: Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels
Holy smokes!! I read this whole thread, and now I'm confused about something I never knew was an issue. So... how does one know if ones wheels are hub or lug cocentric?
'73 LS-4 454, owned 22 years!Comment
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Re: Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels
Any wheel that is hub concentric has to also be lug concentric. If it wasn't the studs would be offset in the wheel holes. Of course the vise verse would not be true. Naturally this excludes KOsComment
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Re: Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels
There are a lot of comments on this thread that could trigger individual responses, but I'm too lazy to quote and respond that way.
In the '70's my first job after college was working for a wholesale tire distributor who also had an equipment division. Being something of a gearhead even then, I quickly moved from tires into the equipment side. At that time the smaller low budget shops typically used a bubble balancer while the upscale ones also had on car spin balancers. A very high percentage of tires leading up to this point were bias ply and the "new" radial tires were something of a novelty. With the dynamics of the old bias ply tires the type of balancing, generally described as "static" was adequate. With the newer radial technology and the characteristics of the tires static balancing was no longer adequate. Generally speaking both the bubble and on car spin balancers were both forms of static balancing.
Early on in all this a German company named Hoffman introduced the electronic off car balancer, commonly called "computer balancer" to the market. In the beginning they cost approximately 4X what a spin balancer did and were something of a hard sell. They caught on like wildfire and for a year or so I personally sold more "computer balancers" than everyone else in Georgia combined. The advantage of this balance type was that the tires were not only statically balanced but dynamically also. A loose description of the two is that the static balance eliminates hop and the dynamic addresses wobble much as a gyro feels when moving it off plane. (I actually used a toy gyro in my sales pitch to difficult prospects)
At any rate, Hoffman first came with lug centering devices for all wheels. They were not only complex and expensive but required multiples. The engineers at Hoffman contended all along that the wheel center was the way to most accurately center the wheels, however the American market was resistant. After we made the change to center hole mounting we found that the customer comebacks were greatly reduced. Wheel manufacturer after wheel manufacturer came foward stating that the center hole was the absolute center of the wheel at time of manufacture. Kelsey was one that comes to memory. I believe that almost all wheels should be mounted from the center now regardless of year. I do not recall every knowing of a manufacturer responding that previous to some time the lugs were more accurate to the rim itself than the center hole. As was stated earlier in this thread, if there is a discrepency in the relationship between the lugs and center hole I would not want to run it anyway.Comment
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Re: Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels
This has been an interesting discussion, but I invite each of you to take some genuine OEM Kelsey-Hayes bare steel wheels and mount them either lug-centric or hub-centric on a dynamic balancing machine to measure runout both radially and axially. I'll bet you'll be horrified by the results. The few thou of difference the mounting method might make will pale in comparison to the 1/16" or more runout that is inherent in these wheels from normal manufacturing tolerance.
I passed on a bargained=priced complete matched set of '68 KH wheels assuming they had been bent and subsequently straightened, and unwisely accused the seller of trying to pass faulty goods. After thinking things through more logically, wondering how it would be possible to bend all 5 wheels in a set, I subsequently learned via an acquaintance of a former senior exec at KH that these wheels fell well within normal tolerances. The wheels were gone when I went back.Comment
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Re: Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels
You're right about how bad the acceptable tolerance was. Many people resorted to tire truing back then and in many cases they were actually cutting a round tire to offset the out of round wheel. As far as bending all wheels in a set, it was very common. The reason was the tire changer, both the machine and technician. A popular brand back then the Coats pushed upward with the lower bead at one position on the bottom and then pulled down 180 degrees opposite around the wheel. These machines were very prone to bending wheels, ESPECIALLY if a technician didn't remove all the wheel weights, allowing the lower spoon to hang. The old saying back then was that every wheel broken down on a Coats machine was bent, it was just a matter of how much.Comment
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Re: Wheel balancing equipment concern for our "old" wheels
Since I have shimmy/out of balance indications on my 68's original steel rim mounted tires, it could be a problem by a tire installer using a Coats machine. Problem occurs about 54-62 mph.Comment
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