Restoration

[Joe C.]

Re: Restoration

Thanks JR! And thanks Jim Durham for agreeing! You two have guts to come here and speak so frankly.

Why then, doesn't NCRS change their judging strategy to further encourage "better" reproduction of the original crappy workmanship including dull paint, holidays, wavy panels, rough spots, misaligned panel joints, windows that don't fully close with the doors shut, water leaks, scratches in paint, hanging weatherstrips, etc, etc ad nauseam?

I'll tell you why? Because NCRS is not a hobby.............it's a business.................a big money business, and most people spending big money on a restoration don't want to buy a product that looks like a POS just to satisfy some half crazed fanatical band of Corvette nerds.

Do the people who restore and trade high valued and rare automobiles such as pre-war Deusenbergs, LaSalles, Mercedes and the like obsess so endlessly over producing coachwork that looks like shlt? I think not!

[William F.]

Re: Restoration

Right on, Edward. Do others really want a crummy paint job?Provided proper priming, metallic particles are correct size and colors are accurate, a BC/CC looks great and protects the car for the future

[Michael H.]

Re: Restoration

There's absolutely nothing wrong with making the body and paint a lot better than what it was when the car left the St Louis plant. I agree, they weren't perfect. Some folks like the cars over restored. (if there is such a thing) If everyone liked the same thing, GM wouldn't have had to offer different colors. The last thing I would ever do here would be to try to convince everyone that they should restore the body to look exactly like it did when new. That's not the point.

The point is, please, no whining when the originality judging of the body/paint takes a major hit at the next NCRS or Bloomington Gold event. If your car is arrow straight, every panel fits like a Rolls Royce and looks like the body was dipped in a vat of clear something, you will most likely loose points.

Next time the 1500 mile green/saddle leather 65 FI conv shows up at an NCRS/BG event,take a good look and see if you still think the original factory applied paint is really as bad as some claim original paint is.

(I agree, the quality of body/paint hit a low in the mid/late 70's though)

[John D.]

Re: Restoration

My first new Corvette was a Glenn Green 65 Convertible. To get to the point let me tell you the paint job was not bad. No it wasn't. It was down right horrible beyond description. The rear quarters showed primer above the wheel wells. The front fender louvers were very rough which just a hint of paint. Raw fibeglass at the bottom of the doors as I recall. My Dad bought me my first Corvette God bless him. He bought it from his buddy who owned the Chevy dealership. Anyhow Chevrolet repainted the car. I had my share of new midyears(not like Clem though) and let me say only one out of 4 had a decent paint job.
Todays' restorations and even yesterdays weren't and aren't even close to original. Jorjorian mentioned body seams. Whew!!! You could see just about every seam in them after a couple of months.
Grabiak Chevrolet repainted or drastically touched up every new Corvette they sold.
Michael Hanson etal and others here old enough to remember those cars knew how rough they were but it didn't matter to us as we loved them anyhow.
If you think the mid years were bad you should have seen the paint job on my 68 BB when new. All the rivets showed in the front end. Paint job was down right disgusting.
One more. I bought a new '80 Corvette in Dec 79. The right front fender stuck up in the air a good 3/8" above the hood line. The paint job looked like Earl did it.
The doors didn't align for crap.

[Jim D.]

Re: Restoration

One more. I bought a new '80 Corvette in Dec 79. The right front fender stuck up in the air a good 3/8" above the hood line. The paint job looked like Earl did it.
The doors didn't align for crap.

I ordered a blue 1980 about the same time. When I went to pick it up, I told the dealer "You're joking, right?" The left fender vent had a 6" wide run with zero paint below it and you could see the primer on both rear quarters. I didn't get a chance to check out the panel fit as the paint was so terrible, I told them I want my deposit back. They offered to re-paint the whole car but I refused. They really had some problems back then.

[Kenneth S.]

Re: Restoration

Not all the cars were poorly done; the first 63’s made for the dealer showrooms on opening day were excellent. I bought the red/redconvertible from Don Allen Chevrolet in Miami on opening day and as I recall the fit and finish and the paint job was excellent. I did find later that the left rear shock was missing, I guess they were in a hurry to get them out. Yes, that's me in 1963, sorry for the quality of the photo, not sure what happened as it looks good on my computer.
Ken

1221 Corvette in 1963.jpg

[Domenic T.]

Re: Restoration

I can't bring myself to the point of replicating mistakes and bad workmanship.

I agree with the ones that wanted the car that was built on a good day.

I want the car as it was INTENDED to be.

I'm sure the forman didn't say "now lets forget to sand here" and make sure the paint looks like a Earl Shieb job.

I would have to feel sorry for a member that had a car done on a good day while it was being judged.

I say build it like it was intended to be built, then pat yourself on the back.

I still appreciate the efforts to replicate mistakes but ...............




DOM

[Michael W.]

Re: Restoration

Those with first handed knowledge of brand new cars have indicated a large variation in build quality- some were horrible, but some were quite good. How is a judge today to know if a car in question was orignally at one end of the spectrum, the other or somewhere in the middle? If a car accurately looks like the best of the best- why would a deduction be assessed?

[Michael H.]

Re: Restoration

I agree, there's no way to determine what each car looked like when it rolled off the line. Some needed a few paint items repaired and some needed quite a bit. I would think that any restoration could/should be restored to the top end of the scale.

That doesn't include the gallons of clear coat on a perfect body though. That would be way out of the range of a typical new car.

The point of this seems to have shifted to some of the worst bodies/paint on newer cars (C3) but for most typical C2's, the quality was generally good.

I don't think many want to recreate some paint issues that "could have been" on a new C2 but even that would be a lot closer to typical than some of the "Rolls Royce dipped in clear" that I've seen.

Again, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, if that's what an owner wants. It just isn't restoring though and it probably will suffer in judging.
I've seen some rather heated discussions (arguments) at a few events about this topic.

[Pat M.]

Re: Restoration

I think my painter did a great job of "splitting the difference" on my 70, that is, the paint's good looking even to a "civilian", yet it has some orange peel and is not too shiny overall. It judged well and I'm happy with on an everyday basis, too.

[Tom A.]

Re: Restoration

NCRS is still a hobbyist organization. Yes there are many who make it all about money and profits but without the hobbyist we likely wouldn't have an organization. There are tons of people who continually give freely of their time because they love it and believe in what we do here. One of the great things about NCRS is that we judge against a standard not against other cars. Without a standard what would our basis for judging be? A person can present their car however the like, there is nothing wrong with building the car you want just be prepared to accept the way it's judged against the standard. Many people would like to change the standards to suit what they want. If NCRS were to do this the standard would change weekly and still no one would be happy because we can't all have it our way. When a person joins NCRS we are not shy about declaring our purpose and standards, you still have a choice, if what we have isn't what you want there are many other Corvette organizations out there who may be a better match for you. Take it or leave it but don't complain when it doesn't do it the way you want. Why don't we instead of complaining take a minute to thank all the people who volunteer the time for the great organization we have and the tremendous volume of materials and information gathered over many years. Thank you NCRS officers, representatives, organizers, manual writers, team leaders and judges and many many more who volunteer regularly.

[Domenic T.]

Re: Restoration

Where do the guys go to get their work appreciated when the try to make everything excellent?

Is there a class for their car or do they get deductions for good work if they try to get judged?

I have never gone to an event and do not know (other than reading) what they are like.

I have over restored and feel like a outcast for striving to do get one the way it was intended to be when it was a gleem in the factories eye.

Not being sarcastic but is there a place for us?

DOM

[Michael H.]

Re: Restoration

Where do the guys go to get their work appreciated when the try to make everything excellent?


Not being sarcastic but is there a place for us?

DOM

Domenic,

You're in the right place. There's room for everyone, even if you don't want to restore your car back to as close to "roll out" as possible. There's absolutely nothing wrong with making your car better than it may have been when new. That's just another good point of these organizations.

Some members choose to go a slightly different route but that doesn't mean you are going in the wrong direction. Be proud of what you do.

My point was basically directed at some that will not understand why they will most likely loose points with an over restored car when judged. That has nothing to do with what other members do.

In ways, I'm the same as you. I drive my car, a lot, and will never restore or show it. That doesn't mean I shouldn't be involved with the org though.

I love the challenge of accurately restoring a car but those days are long past for me. But that doesn't mean my opinion has changed about what an NCRS/BG restoration should look like though.

As Tom Ames mentioned above. There can only be one goal if your talking about restoring a Corvette, and using the word Corvette/restore/original in the subject. It's a moving target but, over the years, it isn't moving away from "as produced". It's getting closer.

[Pat M.]

Re: Restoration

Cue Terry M's "bringing a baseball to a football game" analogy. We might need a permanent sticky for that.

[William F.]

Re: Restoration

So, seek out a paint shop known for orange peel and generally crappy work and it'll score high, right?