C4 Judging Question ?

[Peter M.]

Early C4's were subjected to a seatbelt recall (#91V-143) whereby Chevy dealers replaced the OEM seatbelts due to a well documented defect. This well know federally mandated recall was completed at the dealership at no cost to the Corvette owner.

When having my car judged at both the regional and national level, the NCRS Master Judges knew about the recall and commented positively with no point deductions about my replacement seatbelts being date-coded several years after the car's build date.

Recently, I have noticed that NCRS judges are deducting points for the non-original replacement seatbelts. Should NCRS judges be deducting judging points for standard equipment replaced due to a Federally mandated recall ? What is, or should be, the Club's standard practice on such matters ?

Any direction from Roy Sinor, Allen Tremain or Tom Barr will be appreciated.

Thanks.

[Reba W.]

Re: C4 Judging Question ?

From the latest ediiton Judging Reference Manual

15. FACTORY RECALL MODIFICATION
Owners able to document Chevrolet notice for a factory-recall modification to their vehicles and such appears to have been performed by a Chevrolet Dealer to factory specifications will receive a minimum originality deduction.

[Peter M.]

Re: C4 Judging Question ?

From the latest ediiton Judging Reference Manual

15. FACTORY RECALL MODIFICATION
Owners able to document Chevrolet notice for a factory-recall modification to their vehicles and such appears to have been performed by a Chevrolet Dealer to factory specifications will receive a minimum originality deduction.

Thanks for clearing this up for me, Reba . That's very helpful.

Is a minimum originally deduction usually one or two points?

[Pat M.]

Re: C4 Judging Question ?

I'm a little surprised there's any deduction, so as to not discourage compliance with safety issues such as these.

[Rick A.]

Re: C4 Judging Question ?

Pat,

No different than the "minor" three point deduction for DOT tires - safety is always first with NCRS!

[Reba W.]

Re: C4 Judging Question ?

I am one of the persons who judged Pete's car this past weekend. And those of you acquainted with me know, I am a C3 judge. However, I did have a partner who knows C4s inside and out, but this was his first judging assignment. We went strictly by the CDCIF format and took 20% for the date on the seat belts. They are very very nice for their age and the fact that they are gray, not a dark color that hides things.

Had I known about or Pete had a copy of the recall, I would have taken less than the 20% as the JFM says "a mimimum deduction." That is hindsight and I have talked with Pete. He is satisfied, but he did suggest I post my explanation here. (Experienced C4 interior judges most likely know of the recall.)

Pete and Mary have a very nice 1986 that they enjoy and drive. Warning to the next judge: He is ready with a copy of the recall.

[Terry M.]

Re: C4 Judging Question ?

I'm a little surprised there's any deduction, so as to not discourage compliance with safety issues such as these.

Nothing new here. 1969 had a seat belt campaign, and we have been making this minor deduction on thise cars for years.

[Pat M.]

Re: C4 Judging Question ?

Pat,

No different than the "minor" three point deduction for DOT tires - safety is always first with NCRS!

But unlike Peter's issue, DOT tires are normally not used because of a safety recall on the original tires. How does NCRS handle the recall of the Firestone (I think) tires on C3s?

[Pat M.]

Re: C4 Judging Question ?

Nothing new here. 1969 had a seat belt campaign, and we have been making this minor deduction on thise cars for years.

Interesting Terry, I didn't know this.

[Peter M.]

Re: C4 Judging Question ?

I am NOT quibbling about the point deduction. Reba and the other Master Judges at the meet did a great job, as usual. I simply wanted to understand what the rules are for Federally Mandated Safety Recalls. AND, once clarified, to post the correct answer so ALL could benefit by understanding how to handle Federally Mandated Safety Recalls. In the past some judges have taken a minimum deduction and some have taken no point deduction at all. This even happens at Regional and National meets.

Thanks to Reba for clearing this up and keeping us all going in the right direction.

P.

[Terry M.]

Re: C4 Judging Question ?

I am NOT quibbling about the point deduction. Reba and the other Master Judges at the meet did a great job, as usual. I simply wanted to understand what the rules are for Federally Mandated Safety Recalls. AND, once clarified, to post the correct answer so ALL could benefit by understanding how to handle Federally Mandated Safety Recalls. In the past some judges have taken a minimum deduction and some have taken no point deduction at all. This even happens at Regional and National meets.

Thanks to Reba for clearing this up and keeping us all going in the right direction.


P.

Pete,

I don't think you will get a definitive answer. Based on my experience when I was 1970-72 NTL some judges consider a minimum deduction to equal zero, and some consider it to be one point and some two points. My observation is that the reason for the minimum deduction has less to do with Federal dictates than the personal views of the judge involved. To be blunt: Some folks don't like governmental intrusion even for their own well being. And this is one way they have of expressing their dissatisfaction with the system. Unless the NTL or the National Judging Chairman dictates a standard and enforces it by changing the score sheets that fail to follow those dictates there will always be some deviations. In the bigger scheme of things one or no points don't make a lot of difference unless those happen to be the only points deducted.

[Peter M.]

Re: C4 Judging Question ?

Pete,

I don't think you will get a definitive answer. Based on my experience when I was 1970-72 NTL some judges consider a minimum deduction to equal zero, and some consider it to be one point and some two points. My observation is that the reason for the minimum deduction has less to do with Federal dictates than the personal views of the judge involved. To be blunt: Some folks don't like governmental intrusion even for their own well being. And this is one way they have of expressing their dissatisfaction with the system. Unless the NTL or the National Judging Chairman dictates a standard and enforces it by changing the score sheets that fail to follow those dictates there will always be some deviations. In the bigger scheme of things one or no points don't make a lot of difference unless those happen to be the only points deducted.

Terry:

Thanks for your guidance and for sharing your judging experience with us.