Hardtop Project-Lesson learned 2A

[Gerard F.]

Well, I had a post a few weeks ago on my problems with losing a piece of upper trim for the rear window of my 67 hardtop.
I admit I just slapped it on to make the N. California Chapter meet in Suisun City about 110 miles from me.

When I got home I figured that the problem was the replacement "chair' clips which hold the rear window trim in place.
The clips I used (probably from China) were just not bent correctly to hold the trim firmly in place.

So after $250 for a new trim piece (they don't make reproductions so you have to get a restored original),
I pulled all the trim and rear window to start all over with the rear of the hardtop. What a mess pulling the rear window
after I had chaulked the weatherstrip. Cleaning that stuff up took most of an afternoon.

I figured I'd do it right this time. Photo 1 below is the bending of the clips. You need to bend the clips so that when
installed, the top of the clip is tight against the body of the hardtop, just like the originals were.

Then I figured I'd dry fit the upper rear windshield trim without the windshield in place. I ran into problems with the factory (AO Smith) fit.
Photo 2 and 3 show the problem. There was an extra amount of fiberglass at the lower rear corner of the rear window and the trim really never fit
properly from the factory. The factory guy just hammered it in, and bent the trim in place.

Photo 4 is the modified fit, next post is the solution.

I guess I finally figured this out, but it is a lot more difficult to do then with the last system.

[Gerard F.]

Re: Hardtop Project-Lesson learned 2A

Here's the solution to the problem above. Just hate to take a dremel cutter to an original part, but it was worth it.

See photos 1 & 2 below

Then dry fit the trim and mark the positions on the top and the trim for final installation. See photos 3 and 4 below.

Maybe I'll be over-restored

(This new system is still very difficult in posting pictures, and is user unfriendly. The admin guys need to work on this, the last system was much better. But Seabees Can Do)

Just don't preview your post, unless you have it stored in a txt file to recover.

Having fun,

[Gene M.]

Re: Hardtop Project-Lesson learned 2A

Jerry,
Would not the right way to fix this issue be remove the body material in the corner with a small dremel bit?

This fix cuts back on the overlap of the two pieces, only the one edge is securing it.

Do you have the screw installed that goes thru the inner trim strip and gets covered by the outer?

[Gerard F.]

Re: Hardtop Project-Lesson learned 2A

Gene,

If you take a good look at where I cut the trim piece, it doesn't effect the overlap with the side piece. The cut is on the inside leg of the trim which retains the trim to the body.

The top is an AO Smith assembled hardtop, which does not have the screw at the base of the window trim. This screw was added to the St. Louis AIM, I believe in Feb 67 (Item 24) but I have no evidence of it, not even a screw hole, on this AO Smith top.
The car is a June 67 AO Smith car.

I do have a screw and retainer not shown on the St. Louis AIM which holds the window weatherstrip in at the corner location. I guess they assembled differently at AO Smith.

[Gerard F.]

Re: Hardtop Project-Lesson learned 2A

Gene,

Like I said in the above post, I never had that screw which secures the trim at the lower corner (Item 24 of the 67 AIM CO7/A6).

But I do have a screw and retainer, which I cannot find in either the 67 St. Louis AIM or the 66 Hardtop pages of the Dow Smith AIM which I have.

The screw and retainer looks like this (photo 1).

It goes in a drilled hole in the frame above the normal weatherstrip/trim retainer screw at the lower corner trim. (see photo 2)

The retainer fits into the lip at the top of the lower corner trim. (see photo 3) When you tighten the screw, it pulls the top of the corner piece tight against the window weatherstripping.

Photo 4 is my original window weatherstripping showing the marks of the screw and retainer.

I'm wondering if this was a late field change at AO Smith. Wondering how many St. Louis 67 hardtops have the Item 24 screw, or this setup.

[Gene M.]

Re: Hardtop Project-Lesson learned 2A

Gene,

If you take a good look at where I cut the trim piece, it doesn't effect the overlap with the side piece. The cut is on the inside leg of the trim which retains the trim to the body.

The top is an AO Smith assembled hardtop, which does not have the screw at the base of the window trim. This screw was added to the St. Louis AIM, I believe in Feb 67 (Item 24) but I have no evidence of it, not even a screw hole, on this AO Smith top.
The car is a June 67 AO Smith car.

I do have a screw and retainer not shown on the St. Louis AIM which holds the window weatherstrip in at the corner location. I guess they assembled differently at AO Smith.

Jerry,
That outside screw was earlier than that. I just did a 66 (I think St Louis) top with it.
I was looking at your "cut off" at the wrong end I guess....!

From your photo you show a machine screw going in a counter sunk hole from the inside thru the aluminum. There are several machine screws that go around the aluminum securing the w/s with the trim. My holes here are not counter sunk just thru holes. All tops have these screws, s/b pan head w/washer.

The screw I'm refering to goes in from the outside. The outside inner piece of trim has a drawn counter sunk hole for the screw (use a small jackson head) and the outer trim slides over it. I have not run into a top without it. Maybe I've been lucky.

[Gerard F.]

Re: Hardtop Project-Lesson learned 2A

Gene,

I have all the pan head screws which go through weatherstripping to the rear trim retainers. They are like the zinc plated lower screw in the second photo immediately above. (incidentally the oringinal of those screws were black phosphate and not zinc).

But in the photos above you'll see an additional countersunk screw and trim retainer which retains the corner piece tight to the windshield weatherstrip from the inside.

Although I have the hole and countersink in the upper trim pieces, there was never a screw from the outside holding the trim piece in place. This is the first time apart for this original hardtop, and there is no hole, or even a mark of the screw on the original window weatherstrip. So, I'm scratching my head about when (and where) this inside screw and retainer replaced the outside screw.

On another topic, I bought a pair of replacement upper and lower window reinforcement screws, the ones that have the stainless steel spanner screw on the outside and special phillips head nut on the inside. Well, the inside part on the replacements is zinc plated, but my originals look more like a rusted black phosphate, but too rusted to tell for sure. Do you know whether the originals were black phosphate, or zinc plated like the replacements.

[Gene M.]

Re: Hardtop Project-Lesson learned 2A

Gene,

I have all the pan head screws which go through weatherstripping to the rear trim retainers. They are like the zinc plated lower screw in the second photo immediately above. (incidentally the oringinal of those screws were black phosphate and not zinc).

But in the photos above you'll see an additional countersunk screw and trim retainer which retains the corner piece tight to the windshield weatherstrip from the inside.

Although I have the hole and countersink in the upper trim pieces, there was never a screw from the outside holding the trim piece in place. This is the first time apart for this original hardtop, and there is no hole, or even a mark of the screw on the original window weatherstrip. So, I'm scratching my head about when (and where) this inside screw and retainer replaced the outside screw.

On another topic, I bought a pair of replacement upper and lower window reinforcement screws, the ones that have the stainless steel spanner screw on the outside and special phillips head nut on the inside. Well, the inside part on the replacements is zinc plated, but my originals look more like a rusted black phosphate, but too rusted to tell for sure. Do you know whether the originals were black phosphate, or zinc plated like the replacements.

Jerry,
I agree those screws were black phosphate and not zinc.

As far as the spanner screw (inserted from inside) I have run into the same rusty hardware and not sure about the black phosphate. I tend to think not because black phosphate tends to look more grey. If anything I would suggest black oxide is more what it looks like. But, GM was not known for use of black oxide. Black oxide is quite black as these pieces often look.

My opinion is the original spanner it's self is nickel & chrome not zinc. GM typical did not chromate treat zinc plated hardware which gives zinc more durability and luster. Shine these pieces up on a buffer and I think you too will think they are nickel & chrome plated when you see the results. A buffing wheel would just take off zinc plate in no time.

[Gerard F.]

Re: Hardtop Project-Lesson learned 2A

Gene,

There is nothing like an original when it comes to the spanner screws and nuts.

Here's three photos, repro on the left, two 67 originals on the right.

You can see the the difference in the spanner screws. The spanner wrench they sell for the screws only fits the the repro, and is useless on the originals. You are better off using the butt end of a 5/64" drill bit for the originals.

The rusty screws I redid with a black phosphate/black oxide mix I have in my crockpot. Gave then a shot of Diamond Clear for a little shine. Looks a lot better against a black bracket.

[Gene M.]

Re: Hardtop Project-Lesson learned 2A

Jerry,
You did a nice job. They look very original to me.

Suggestion for assembly, use a tru-arc retaining ring pliers for external rings. They are available at right angles as well as straight and different diameters.