70 Frt & Rr Stabilizer Bar ID paint or Tag

[Mike Z.]

JM indicates original Frt Stabilizer bar had a daub of color or a tag on the pass side indicating their application. ID tags are readily available for C-2, but I am not finding repro tag from any of the suppliers. Can anyone tell me the color of paint that would be correct for 70 LS-5 w/standard suspension? Was there any identifying marks or tags for the rear-JM does not address rear ID.
Mike Zamora
12455

[Terry M.]

Re: 70 Frt & Rr Stabilizer Bar ID paint or Tag

JM indicates original Frt Stabilizer bar had a daub of color or a tag on the pass side indicating their application. ID tags are readily available for C-2, but I am not finding repro tag from any of the suppliers. Can anyone tell me the color of paint that would be correct for 70 LS-5 w/standard suspension? Was there any identifying marks or tags for the rear-JM does not address rear ID.
Mike Zamora
12455

No tags or ID that I know of on the rear -- and no paint either.

Front stabilizer bar was painted black and the tags I have seen were painted over, so you could just wrap a piece of paper tape around the right side of the bar and paint it all black. I can't say I have ever seen a C3 with a colored paint mark on the stabilizer bar, but maybe the guys who do chassis all the time have seen them. Hang on -- they will chime in I am sure.

[Patrick H.]

Re: 70 Frt & Rr Stabilizer Bar ID paint or Tag

I knew I had one...

Nov 1971 built car, base motor 4 speed. The sticker is just left of center on this car.

[Alan S.]

Re: 70 Frt & Rr Stabilizer Bar ID paint or Tag

Hi Patrick,
NICE!
Regards,
Alan

[Mike Z.]

Re: 70 Frt & Rr Stabilizer Bar ID paint or Tag

Thanks guys, but I'm not comfortable yet. Per the JM: it indicates a paint daub or tag (I assume similar to ones I have seen on C-2's and would have a code, usually 2 alpha characters, indicating their application). It is indicated these marks are on the passenger side-I assume on the turn back on the outside of the frame if it followed C-2 config. Why would the JM have this indication if there was not some sort of documentation as to the color of paint daub? Or, does anyone know of a source for a repro tag, or the code I should look for? Would it be the same code and configuration as say a 66-67 F-41 suspension as the dia of the bar is the same 15/16"?

Another question on the bar. C-2 JM (66) indicates the use of the blackout material being sprayed on-In working with several experienced judges, this was only matted or sprayed between the frame rails. The 70 JM does not mention the black-out material-opinions please.

Thanks,
Mike
#12455

[Patrick H.]

Re: 70 Frt & Rr Stabilizer Bar ID paint or Tag

Mike,

No offense, but I'm not sure what your comfort level would be. It's different for each of us.
I don't own a 66 nor do I have a 66 JG so I really can't reference that or the 66 available repro parts or what the codes may have been. I do know that there are definitely differences between a 66 and your 1970.
And, as others here I'm on the 68-9 JG team and the 70-72 team and have a fair knowledge of the cars and what's in the JG.

As Terry inferred I generally judge chassis. If it were my car, I would:

Front stabilizer bar was painted black and the tags I have seen were painted over, so you could just wrap a piece of paper tape around the right side of the bar and paint it all black. I can't say I have ever seen a C3 with a colored paint mark on the stabilizer bar, but maybe the guys who do chassis all the time have seen them. Hang on -- they will chime in I am sure.

Of course, my example is left of center, not right as Terry mentioned.
I'd give that attempt at authenticity full credit. However, I might use an Avery label rather than paper tape.
There are so few of these out there that if you are looking for a repro with an exact code I think you'll spend a long time searching.

Let us know what you decide.

Patrick

[Mike Z.]

Re: 70 Frt & Rr Stabilizer Bar ID paint or Tag

Patrick-
No offense taken, and to further explain my comfort level: it is one of, as both an owner and judge, I want to be as true to original and to what would have been delivered from GM as I can. Although, I have completed multi high point C-2 restorations, I am enjoying this 70 and want to learn the differences and details-be they major or minor in nature. The questions I have posted are what many might deem as minor, but the major stuff, most can handle easily. But in judging 66-67 for several years, I find the minor items are the difference between an OK car and one that stands out. Most anyone can get the major stuff, it is the little details that distinguishes the quality of a restoration.
For example, you and Terry (whom I respect highly) indicate to just paint the bar and a piece of tape (in lieu of a broadcast label), but the 70 JM indicates "as-forged" or "dipped semi-gloss black" (neither of which have the same appearance as spray). Based on many sources (granted they spoke to C-2 config) I feel the "as-forged" would have been more correct, which is not painted, but rather is treated with an oil preservative (which wore off quickly). I plan to do my 70 bar, just like my last 2 National Top Flight C-2's in "as-forged" with a tag (that were readily available for C-2), and mitt wiped with black out; which received no point losses, but others that did not have all of these details have lost points.
My original question simple asked for clarification on the color of paint daub or a source for a correct broadcast label for the various application in 70, to complete my interpretation of what my past research and the JM is telling me. It would have been great if the authors of the JM that indicated such details as the daub of paint or tag, might have gone the extra step and indicated the color or broadcast code for the various applications. If you feel simply painting the bar is correct, great-I feel there is more to it and was simply asking for assistance to fine tune my project and fill in the blanks left by the current 70 JM. My inclination at this point is to use a broadcast tag for C-2 F-41 (readily available), which is the same size dia. bar (15/16"), and let someone tell me it is incorrect-perhaps we would have a great conversation debating these details questions.
Thanks,
Mike

[Don L.]

Re: 70 Frt & Rr Stabilizer Bar ID paint or Tag

Interesting. FWIW, I'll offer that what appears on a '66 doesn't necessarily drive what should be expected on a '70. That said, I do think it and I hope others do too, a worthy discussion to attempt to learn and gain more insight on the details of this item.

Patrick, I know you judge chassis and have judged my car fairly numerous times. I learn much through the process and the knowledge of guys like Paul and you. At last year's national convention, you and Paul O. taught me about this needed label. Now I too am in the hunt for more of an understanding so that I can catch my car up to what's right. I hope to now learn more about the front stabilizer bar and label.

Is the photo you posted from a known original and un-hit car (it sure looks like it)? It's hard for me to see in the photo - does the label show any black paint on it, thereby showing that the label was on the bar before the bar was painted? Is there ANYTHING that's legible on the bar? Can we get a width dimension for the pictured label? Does anyone on this board have any recollection of what the label and assembly process was for the front stabilizer bar? Are there more original cars out there that might offer some insight?

[Terry M.]

Re: 70 Frt & Rr Stabilizer Bar ID paint or Tag

In writing the TIM&JG we can only put in what we know for certain, and have seen on a number of cars. One example or even two, just doesn't cut it for inclusion in the manual. Where specificity is not mentioned (broadcast code or color of paint marks) it is because we either have too few or no examples to share. We will err on he side of exclusion rather than "shoot from the hip." In short, we can't tell you what we don't know at the time the manual is written. We hope to learn more as time goes on, but who knows?

BTW: The location for the tag on the front stabilizer bar came from a GM print -- and before you ask, that print did NOT include broadcast code information nor did it say anything about a color mark.

[Patrick H.]

Re: 70 Frt & Rr Stabilizer Bar ID paint or Tag

Patrick-
No offense taken, and to further explain my comfort level: it is one of, as both an owner and judge, I want to be as true to original and to what would have been delivered from GM as I can. Although, I have completed multi high point C-2 restorations, I am enjoying this 70 and want to learn the differences and details-be they major or minor in nature. The questions I have posted are what many might deem as minor, but the major stuff, most can handle easily. But in judging 66-67 for several years, I find the minor items are the difference between an OK car and one that stands out. Most anyone can get the major stuff, it is the little details that distinguishes the quality of a restoration.
For example, you and Terry (whom I respect highly) indicate to just paint the bar and a piece of tape (in lieu of a broadcast label), but the 70 JM indicates "as-forged" or "dipped semi-gloss black" (neither of which have the same appearance as spray). Based on many sources (granted they spoke to C-2 config) I feel the "as-forged" would have been more correct, which is not painted, but rather is treated with an oil preservative (which wore off quickly). I plan to do my 70 bar, just like my last 2 National Top Flight C-2's in "as-forged" with a tag (that were readily available for C-2), and mitt wiped with black out; which received no point losses, but others that did not have all of these details have lost points.
My original question simple asked for clarification on the color of paint daub or a source for a correct broadcast label for the various application in 70, to complete my interpretation of what my past research and the JM is telling me. It would have been great if the authors of the JM that indicated such details as the daub of paint or tag, might have gone the extra step and indicated the color or broadcast code for the various applications. If you feel simply painting the bar is correct, great-I feel there is more to it and was simply asking for assistance to fine tune my project and fill in the blanks left by the current 70 JM. My inclination at this point is to use a broadcast tag for C-2 F-41 (readily available), which is the same size dia. bar (15/16"), and let someone tell me it is incorrect-perhaps we would have a great conversation debating these details questions.
Thanks,
Mike

Mike,

Actually I'd suspect that black painted is much more common than as-forged. Thus the fact that Terry and I both recommended painting the bar black.
And, I don't recall ever being able to tell what is on one of these tags. Of course, now I found more pics so I may have to go examine this car closer...
When it comes to tags I get fairly picky so if I can't recall knowing what is on this one then I'm not sure anyone will.
I just looked at photos of the Bowtie cars from last year; none had the tag and all had black dip painted bars.

Is the photo you posted from a known original and un-hit car (it sure looks like it)? It's hard for me to see in the photo - does the label show any black paint on it, thereby showing that the label was on the bar before the bar was painted? Is there ANYTHING that's legible on the bar? Can we get a width dimension for the pictured label? Does anyone on this board have any recollection of what the label and assembly process was for the front stabilizer bar? Are there more original cars out there that might offer some insight?

Don,

The car in the photos is the orange car. Unfortunately it left my house for the summer on Easter and I won't see it until Bloomington at the earliest, possibly October.

I found 2 additional photos of this same tag on this same car.
See below.
It appears that the tag was on the bar when it was dip painted black and this one is slowly working its way off.
Ever wonder why we can't read it? It's painted black.

Patrick

[Don L.]

Re: 70 Frt & Rr Stabilizer Bar ID paint or Tag

Good pics Patrick. Figured it was the orange car when you said Nov '71 build. That has it at 3 months after mine was built.

I can see your latest photos better. What I thought was the label itself looks in these pics to be "witness marks from where the label had been? From the first photo, I thought I was looking at an unpainted label.. Much clearer to me now. Thanks.

It looks also that the label was not quite long enough to touch when wrapped around the bar. Agree? What would you guess the width of the label to be?

This is good stuff for the next edition JM...

[Terry M.]

Re: 70 Frt & Rr Stabilizer Bar ID paint or Tag

Good pics Patrick. Figured it was the orange car when you said Nov '71 build. That has it at 3 months after mine was built.

I can see your latest photos better. What I thought was the label itself looks in these pics to be "witness marks from where the label had been? From the first photo, I thought I was looking at an unpainted label.. Much clearer to me now. Thanks.

It looks also that the label was not quite long enough to touch when wrapped around the bar. Agree? What would you guess the width of the label to be?

This is good stuff for the next edition JM...

Actually Don, it is NOT good stuff for the next JM because it is ONLY one example. We don't know that ALL 1971s, much less other early C3 Corvettes were like this one, or if this one is the exception.

To illustrate my point a story from the past: There was a time, years ago, when midyear restorers began to put dots of yellow paint on brake line fittings. This charge was lead by a well known restoration shop, and over time many owner-restorers followed suit -- until one of the then-living St Louis plant workers told us the yellow dot meant that brake line fitting was leaking and needed attention in the repair area. Once that word spread, that stopped that practice.

[Don L.]

Re: 70 Frt & Rr Stabilizer Bar ID paint or Tag

[QUOTE=Terry McManmon (3966);610845]Actually Don, it is NOT good stuff for the next JM because it is ONLY one example. We don't know that ALL 1971s, much less other early C3 Corvettes were like this one, or if this one is the exception.

Hi Terry. Try MILK in your Wheaties instead. It's better for you

As to your comment "not good stuff...", I respectfully disagree, or otherwise clarify my intended context. (See post # 8 above).

I well know that one car does not make it so; thus my accompanying statement and questions for other/additional inputs. The current JM is weak on this issue and it seems at least to me that only through queries, discussion and examples as have perhaps been initiated by the OP here, we'll learn more and hopefully enough to provide more insight into what was original factory configuration.

Hopefully, this thread will generate additional information, which can/will be considered as the next edition JM is developed. Please join in encouraging more inputs and more knowledge on this subject.

[Terry M.]

Re: 70 Frt & Rr Stabilizer Bar ID paint or Tag

[QUOTE=Don Lowe (44382);611006]

Actually Don, it is NOT good stuff for the next JM because it is ONLY one example. We don't know that ALL 1971s, much less other early C3 Corvettes were like this one, or if this one is the exception.

Hi Terry. Try MILK in your Wheaties instead. It's better for you

As to your comment "not good stuff...", I respectfully disagree, or otherwise clarify my intended context. (See post # 8 above).

I well know that one car does not make it so; thus my accompanying statement and questions for other/additional inputs. The current JM is weak on this issue and it seems at least to me that only through queries, discussion and examples as have perhaps been initiated by the OP here, we'll learn more and hopefully enough to provide more insight into what was original factory configuration.

Hopefully, this thread will generate additional information, which can/will be considered as the next edition JM is developed. Please join in encouraging more inputs and more knowledge on this subject.

I was not attempting to quash discussion. In fact I was hoping that others would be challenged to bring forth more data, but I felt obligated to point out that the qualifications for inclusion in the JM are a lot more than we have so far.

[Michael H.]

Re: 70 Frt & Rr Stabilizer Bar ID paint or Tag

To illustrate my point a story from the past: There was a time, years ago, when midyear restorers began to put dots of yellow paint on brake line fittings. This charge was lead by a well known restoration shop, and over time many owner-restorers followed suit -- until one of the then-living St Louis plant workers told us the yellow dot meant that brake line fitting was leaking and needed attention in the repair area. Once that word spread, that stopped that practice.

I agree. There are a lot of silly paint stripes and stickers etc appearing on restored cars, at least C2 cars, that were never there when the cars left the St Louis plant.