1964 idler arm help

[Tim D.]

Joe, Allen and Tim...thanks for your response.

I decided to start a new thread more appropriately titled.....I am not trying to make this difficult but something is not right and I am concerned about function and safety as well as correct installation etc.

I purchased a reproduction idler arm w/sealed grease fittings which included seal boot, castle nut and cotter pin made in U.S.A. from a well know vendor/catalog. It does not have the correct GM numbers etc. 1964 Corvette non-power steering....all parts are new...complete steering assembly. I have checked all of the other vendor catalogs and it apears they all seem to be selling the same part.

Upon installation I discovered when I torque the castle nut (45 ft.lbs.), it runs up too far on the ball stud which makes the cotter pin not run through the castle slots (see photos). It seems that the ball stud is too long and/or the hole that runs through the ball stud for the cotter pin is not drilled in the proper location or the castle nut is wrong...although the nut seems to be correct.

I assembled it in this order:
ider arm, foam seal, plastic washer, relay rod, castle nut, cotter pin.

When the head and legs of the cotter pin was not falling withing the castle slots, I installed a larger cotter pin and it is "kind of" securing the nut.....this concerns me! (see photos)

Advice??? Can I install a washer or two in between the castle nut and the relay rod to cause the castle nut to sit lower on the ball stud which would in turn make the cotter pin slot line up? Would this affect safety when the steering system pivots every time it is turned. Should I try to find a "taller" castle nut? Has anyone else had this problem with the supposedly correct Made in USA idler arm?

Could someone send me the measurements of an original idler arm ball stud? The attached photo with the tape meaure is from the reproduction idler arm I removed which had zert fittings AND a lower rubber boot between the bottom of the idler arm and the relay rod which (I think) took up some "space".

Not trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.....this could only happen to me!

Thanks in advance!

Tim Dailey DSC07571.JPGDSC07565.JPGDSC07558.JPGDSC07573.JPG

[Alan D.]

Re: 1964 idler arm help

My numbers are a little different;
your 3/4 mine 13/16 your 1 1/4 mine 1 1/8 your 1 1/2 mine 1 5/16

The castle nut height is 7/16

[Tim D.]

Re: 1964 idler arm help

Alan,

Thanks for your measurements...I suspected that the ball stud on mine was too long. My castle nut is the same as yours at 7/16.

If I could obtain another new idler arm that was known to be correct, I would do it...but I don't want to try to find an original because it will most likely be worn out.

Do you think it would be safe and functional to add a washer or two in between the nut and the bottom of the relay rod? It seems to me this would cause the castle nut to be lower on the ball stud and therefore line up the cotter pin hole with the castle slots.

Tim

[Alan D.]

Re: 1964 idler arm help

Tim, I would not dare to say YES to that idea, just do not have any knowledge on suspension stuff.
My first try would be a larger nut, using loctite, or modern lock nut. It all depends upon if judging is a concern.

If subjecting to judging try your standard nut & loctite. Oh the linkage should all be black.

[Tim D.]

Re: 1964 idler arm help

Alan,

I appreciate your help and thoughts. I know what you mean about you saying, "yes" with safety concerns etc. I am concerned too. I just got off of the phone with a close friend that builds F-18 fighter jets, very knowledgeble and particular....he seemed to think my idea of addding a washer in between the nut and the relay rod would be safe as long as I installed a hardened washer that had an inside diameter that would not affect the tapered fit when torqued to spec (45ft lbs). I just test fitted a washer and it "solves" the problem. The cotter pin lines up as designed. Also, from what I can see, it does not affect the tapered fit. I'm going to go buy a hardened one now and see how it goes.

I am not going to have the car judged...I have restored it using the judging manual as a guide, and tried to make the car 90% +/- correct but I have deviated in a few areas to make me "happy" etc.

I will report back.

Tim

[Joe L.]

Re: 1964 idler arm help

Alan,

I appreciate your help and thoughts. I know what you mean about you saying, "yes" with safety concerns etc. I am concerned too. I just got off of the phone with a close friend that builds F-18 fighter jets, very knowledgeble and particular....he seemed to think my idea of addding a washer in between the nut and the relay rod would be safe as long as I installed a hardened washer that had an inside diameter that would not affect the tapered fit when torqued to spec (45ft lbs). I just test fitted a washer and it "solves" the problem. The cotter pin lines up as designed. Also, from what I can see, it does not affect the tapered fit. I'm going to go buy a hardened one now and see how it goes.

I am not going to have the car judged...I have restored it using the judging manual as a guide, and tried to make the car 90% +/- correct but I have deviated in a few areas to make me "happy" etc.

I will report back.

Tim

Tim------


If you wish, you could install a washer between the slotted nut and the relay rod. However, I would use a hardened washer and not a common, soft, hardware store washer. You want one that has an OD about the size of the nut and an ID about the size of the stud.

[Scott S.]

Re: 1964 idler arm help

I purchased a reproduction idler arm w/sealed grease fittings which included seal boot, castle nut and cotter pin made in U.S.A. from a well know vendor/catalog. It does not have the correct GM numbers etc. 1964 Corvette non-power steering....all parts are new...complete steering assembly. I have checked all of the other vendor catalogs and it apears they all seem to be selling the same part.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]38718[/ATTACH]

Tim,

Something seems not right here.

Idler arms are commonly replaced during restorations, and according to Threads in the archives there is at least one company making a good reproduction, but I have not seen the issues that you're having discussed here on the TDB before.

Also, the last close up picture of the ball stud end of your idler arm doesn't even look like a Corvette idler arm. It appears to have a "casting" line right through the middle. What is that? Neither end of ANY 1963-1967 Corvette idler arm looks like that...

[Scott S.]

Re: 1964 idler arm help

Tim,

Compare the ball-stud end of your Idler arm (picture #4 in your original post) to the NOS example in this picture:

[Scott S.]

Re: 1964 idler arm help

Tim,

A quick check of several vendors shows that Corvette Central and Long Island Corvette both appear to be selling what looks like a black phosphate finish idler arm which is generally configured as the originals, and Paragon has the "natural" finish type, all for the same price if you factor in Paragon's 10% NCRS member discount. The idler arm from America's Finest Corvette was discussed in the archives as being a good repro, but that was a while ago. It's listed at the same prices as the others mentioned here, but no picture is currently available on their website.

Zip has one with a ball-stud end that looks similar to yours, and another that they call "correct" that looks like the version sold by the other vendors, generally configured like the originals, but priced differently, so probably not from the same source. You can't be the only person to have encountered this installation problem with this particular idler arm, unless maybe the associated mounting hardware for the idler arm you purchased is different and you received the mounting hardware for the "correct" type idler arm by mistake?

[Edward J.]

Re: 1964 idler arm help

Tim, I have been in the automotive business for 40 yrs. and this is common with all out of box parts the slotted nuts come in all different sizes, my advice is as Alan says use the sloted nut and a drop of loctite on the threads and then torque and install cotter pin. As it looks the cotter pin has about half engagment. I think a washer would look tacky if your car will be judged.

[Tim D.]

Re: 1964 idler arm help

Allen, Joe and Scott,

I really appreciate your time, expertise and help. I know this should not be this difficult, but it is....something is not right....it could only happen to me.

Scott, the ball-stud end of the idler arm you mentioned from my first set of photos (picture #4) is NOT the idler arm I am currently installing. It is the one I took off of the car which is incorrect with zert fittings and more (purchased from ZIP) a few years back. Sorry for the confusion! I should not have posted that photo in the first place.

The supposedly nearer correct shape and no zert fittings (no GM numbers on it) idler arm I am currently trying to install was just purchased from Paragon made in the USA. I love Paragon, but you are correct in that "something is not right". As far as I can tell, it seems the ball-stud is a bit too long. I now have posted pictures of
IT. As you said, I am not the first guy to go down this road of replacing an idler arm during a restoration.

If anyone has purchased one from the various vendors that is the best copy/fit, please let me know....in the long run, that would be the best solution. However, I don't want to buy 4 of them to find the right one. I've already bought two of them.

Having said that, I did buy a hardened/grade 8 washer and test fit it. It does solve the problem but I hate "jury rigging" things to make them work. It just isn't right!!!

I have posted more photos so everyone is up to speed on where I stand with this issue.

Thanks so much!

Tim

[Tim D.]

Re: 1964 idler arm help

Edward,

Thanks for your input....I too, think the washer looks tacky. I couldn't find a washer that was small enought to "hide" under the nut and still have the correct inside diameter to clear the ball-stud. I was considering either painting it black like the nut or cast blast like the relay rod to make it less conspicuous. I also considered grinding the outside circumference down to "hide" it under the nut...but that may weaken it. I am not having the car judged, but I am the judge and don't like the way this is going!!!!

Tim

[Alan D.]

Re: 1964 idler arm help

Take a look at your taper, know a photo can sometimes play tricks. It just looks narrow.
At thread end (before it starts to roll) mine is 35/64 and at base it's 5/8, so really doesn't taper much.

[Tim D.]

Re: 1964 idler arm help

Udate boys! I can't jury rig this idler arm. I'm pretty sure the ball stud is too long. I took Scott's advice and searched all of the major vendors. I just ordered another idler arm from Long Island Corvette. They claim it is correct including numbers etc. It is very hard to tell in online photos but in comparing mine to the one I just ordered it seems there is a slight difference in the ball stud length as well as a few other things. Thanks to all of you who have kindly responded. Now I will hurry up and wait to assemble the rest of my steering system until the new part arrives. I will report back ASAP!

Regards,

Tim Dailey

[Tim D.]

Re: 1964 idler arm help

Alan, I agree with you 100%......we must have been typing at the same time. I just ordered one from Long Island Corvette. Thanks sooo much for your time and help. I will keep you posted.

Tim