PF-25 Oil Filter Revelation

[Wayne G.]

Re: PF-25 Oil Filter Revelation

Joe,
It may just be a marketing issue for AC. The assembly line engines are built without the need to attract your attention to the oil filter. However an over the counter purchase has to have the "AC" brand of the multi color logo as AC wants that logo recognition . Single color silk screen is cheaper to produce than muiltcolor and when you times that by thousands of oil filters it's big $$$ savings to GM.
Just a thought of an easy explanation.

Wayne

[John H.]

Re: PF-25 Oil Filter Revelation

That sounds like the Camaro filter shown here:

http://www.1970z28camaro.com/engine/

Terry -

That's Charley Lillard's car - it's a real time capsule. Charley has a collection of both original and beautifully-restored 1st-Generation Camaros that would make your eyes bleed.

[Dave S.]

Re: PF-25 Oil Filter Revelation

Joe,
It may just be a marketing issue for AC. The assembly line engines are built without the need to attract your attention to the oil filter. However an over the counter purchase has to have the "AC" brand of the multi color logo as AC wants that logo recognition . Single color silk screen is cheaper to produce than muiltcolor and when you times that by thousands of oil filters it's big $$$ savings to GM.
Just a thought of an easy explanation.

Wayne

To take this another step further we need to address the embossed PF-25's as well as the PF-29's that Paul mentions. As we know the embossed PF-25 filters preceeded the non-embossed filters so are the embossed PF-25 filters black or multi colored silkscreen.??????

Another dilemma for the 68/69 and 70/72 team leaderd. How do we judge the PF-25 filters. ???

Its amazing how answers can lead to more questions.

[Joe L.]

Re: PF-25 Oil Filter Revelation

so are the embossed PF-25 filters black or multi colored silkscreen.??????

Dave-----


The embossed PF-25 were both the black and colored silk-screened. We have many examples of the SERVICE PF-25 which are blue and red silk-screened. Now, we have a few examples of the embossed PF-25 which are black silk-screened (i.e. my friend's 70 Z-28 and the car in Terry's link).

[Joe L.]

Re: PF-25 Oil Filter Revelation

Joe,
It may just be a marketing issue for AC. The assembly line engines are built without the need to attract your attention to the oil filter. However an over the counter purchase has to have the "AC" brand of the multi color logo as AC wants that logo recognition . Single color silk screen is cheaper to produce than muiltcolor and when you times that by thousands of oil filters it's big $$$ savings to GM.
Just a thought of an easy explanation.

Wayne

Wayne------


I believe that's precisely and exactly the reason that the assembly line filters differed. While at some much later point, I think there may have been a purpose behind the difference (i.e. possibly to identify cars presenting for engine warranty work which had never had the filter changed), I don't think this was being done as early as 1969. I think the reason for the difference in filter silk-screening was exactly as you surmise----assembly line filters didn't need to be sold to anyone and did not need to be "attractive".

As a matter of fact, I'm not even sure that these filters were limited to assembly line use. GM/AC Delco has always sold filters in what's called a "fleet pack". These are filters sold in packages of 12 or more and designed for sale to fleet operators. These filters don't need to be "attractive" and I don't think they are individually boxed. After all, every penny that can be saved in manufacture and packaging can be passed on to the fleet operator. This also helps GM be more competitive with other aftermarket filter suppliers.

So, why were the black silk-screened PF-25 embossed on the bottom? Well, I suppose it would have cost more to produce non-embossed dies for the filter can than just using the same dies as used for other SERVICE filters.

[Joe L.]

Re: PF-25 Oil Filter Revelation

Joe


Thanks for the updated information on the PF-25 we need all we can get about what was actually used at the factory. I wonder why we have never seen a PF-25 in this finish with all the low mileage Corvettes that have been ether judged or found by our members. It can not be that the Camaro and Nova guys do not change their oil it just seems strange we have not seen this.

Now I am wondering about the PF-25's predecessor the PF-29 I have seen in service boxes in a blue body with a red/blue silk-screening and also in white with the blue/red silk-screening. Have never seen a White with Black silk-screen but it is older then the PF-25 and if there are some that are rarer the the 25's.


Paul 18046

Paul-----


I've never seen a PF-29 with a blue background color. However, it's possible there were some since I have seen PF-11's, the predecessor to the PF-29, with a blue background. (By the way, I don't think that PF-11's were ever used on any Corvette).

My expectation is that there were white background PF-29's which were black silk-screened.

[Terry M.]

Re: PF-25 Oil Filter Revelation

Wayne------


I believe that's precisely and exactly the reason that the assembly line filters differed. While at some much later point, I think there may have been a purpose behind the difference (i.e. possibly to identify cars presenting for engine warranty work which had never had the filter changed), I don't think this was being done as early as 1969. I think the reason for the difference in filter silk-screening was exactly as you surmise----assembly line filters didn't need to be sold to anyone and did not need to be "attractive".

As a matter of fact, I'm not even sure that these filters were limited to assembly line use. GM/AC Delco has always sold filters in what's called a "fleet pack". These are filters sold in packages of 12 or more and designed for sale to fleet operators. These filters don't need to be "attractive" and I don't think they are individually boxed. After all, every penny that can be saved in manufacture and packaging can be passed on to the fleet operator. This also helps GM be more competitive with other aftermarket filter suppliers.

So, why were the black silk-screened PF-25 embossed on the bottom? Well, I suppose it would have cost more to produce non-embossed dies for the filter can than just using the same dies as used for other SERVICE filters.

Joe,

I can tell you since the 1980s the fleet pack oil filters are exactly the same as what was available for retail sale in individual boxes -- except they were packed a dozen to a flat and not in separate boxes. UPF filters are six to a pack and in individual boxes. I have been buying fleet packed filters for my fleet since the middle 1980s.

[Paul O.]

Re: PF-25 Oil Filter Revelation

Terry

Great point did not think about the volume thing.

Paul 18046

[Paul O.]

Re: PF-25 Oil Filter Revelation

Joe

Joe have only seen only 2 PF-29 with the blue back ground they had no boxes so could not determine if they were very early type. Have seen more PF-11 with the blue body finish and I agree they were not used on any corvette that we know of.

Paul 18046

[Paul O.]

Re: PF-25 Oil Filter Revelation

Dave

I agree this is a dilemma for all of us. Joe makes the first reasonable suggestion of why the filters were white/black cost rather then Warranty coverage. Owners replacing their filters paid a high price for the fancy finishes.

But now if all factory filters were white/black any service filter is white/blue/red the replacement would lose 20% due to finish and 20% due to date. But I am sure Dave and may other including myself have seen service replacements with boxes dated at approximately the same time as the cars were produced. Both types were most likely manufactured at the same time one for each market type. Because they had to have inventory for the car as they were driven for normal oil maintenance. So then the date deduction could become mute point.

Then for the PF-25 embossed filters this would also be considered a high cost item when the die wears out. So how long did this feature stay in production some feel it did for a long time and others feel it was much shorter? I personally am a shorter member of the 2 groups.

Oh the web we weave.

Paul 18046

[Dave S.]

Re: PF-25 Oil Filter Revelation

Dave

I agree this is a dilemma for all of us. Joe makes the first reasonable suggestion of why the filters were white/black cost rather then Warranty coverage. Owners replacing their filters paid a high price for the fancy finishes.

But now if all factory filters were white/black any service filter is white/blue/red the replacement would lose 20% due to finish and 20% due to date. But I am sure Dave and may other including myself have seen service replacements with boxes dated at approximately the same time as the cars were produced. Both types were most likely manufactured at the same time one for each market type. Because they had to have inventory for the car as they were driven for normal oil maintenance. So then the date deduction could become mute point.

Then for the PF-25 embossed filters this would also be considered a high cost item when the die wears out. So how long did this feature stay in production some feel it did for a long time and others feel it was much shorter? I personally am a shorter member of the 2 groups.

Oh the web we weave.

Paul 18046

Paul,
This is an interesting judging sceniero. We have a couple of very real examples of black silkscreen filters but we are not sure black was exclusive. Seems to me that we need more than a couple of examples before we begin to deduct for the multi color filters. As we know the oil filter is an item with more than a few points (8 for originality and 7 for condition). Also original black filters are unavailable and reproductions do not exist. What do others think.????

[Terry M.]

Re: PF-25 Oil Filter Revelation

I believe there are reproductions of the non-embossed PF25, but they are/were made on a limited basis for the Camaro market, and I am not sure if they are still available.

[Terry M.]

Re: PF-25 Oil Filter Revelation

Then for the PF-25 embossed filters this would also be considered a high cost item when the die wears out. So how long did this feature stay in production some feel it did for a long time and others feel it was much shorter? I personally am a shorter member of the 2 groups.

Oh the web we weave.

Paul 18046

I am not sure i want to comment on that remark Paul.

[Dave S.]

Re: PF-25 Oil Filter Revelation

I believe there are reproductions of the non-embossed PF25, but they are/were made on a limited basis for the Camaro market, and I am not sure if they are still available.

Terry,
I don't doubt that they were reproduced but I have never seen them.

[Terry M.]

Re: PF-25 Oil Filter Revelation

I have been lurking on some of the Camaro boards since I saw the car I posted the link to a couple of years ago; and I picked up that tid bit there. I have not seen the reproduction filters either, and didn't even keep the contact info for the seller. I didn't have a chance to talk to the owner, but that 1100 mile Z28 is to die for, and of course that is almost the same engine we (well some of us) like so much, and the M40 is just kind of a bonus. I had just about given up trying to "sell" that filter on this side of the house, but Joe provided the testimony to get the ball rolling. As you know I had mentioned that filter to the 1970-72 Judging Manual revision team some time ago.