Acrylic Lacquer versa Base Clear 1971

[Alan S.]

Re: Acrylic Lacquer versa Base Clear 1971

Hi Dick,
I think you made an important point about the painter's experience with lacquer and how his methods of applying it has had to change as the product has changed over the last 40 years.
The fellow who painted my car works by himself and has never made the switch to the new paints. He continues to have enough customers that want acrylic lacquer on their cars that he can still make a living prepping cars for it and spraying it.
Regards,
Alan

[Dick W.]

Re: Acrylic Lacquer versa Base Clear 1971

Single stage !!!!!!!!!
IMO - one can recreate Laq look with the flexiblity and using todays technology....
Easier to make single stage look OE

I have obtained the lacquer look with both single stage and with BC/CC.

[Gene M.]

Re: Acrylic Lacquer versa Base Clear 1971

[QUOTE=Dick Whittington (8804);604074]I have obtained the lacquer look with both single stage and with BC/CC.[/QUOTE

A solid single stage urethane has a greater chance of passing for an original lacquer than metallic bc/cc if the extra effort is put into it. A clear over coat was never used on original lacquer GM applications. A base/clear just does not cut the mustard for use on my cars. No matter what you say I can see with my own eyes it's not like original lacquer. You will in all likely hood pass NCRS judging using base/clear but it still does not look like an original GM lacquer paint job.

Some of us have much higher standards than NCRS judging does. Any implications that bc/cc is original looking to the most critical seeking originality is just not acceptable. Another point the orange peel of urethane is a much larger grain size than lacquer. One would have to have his eyes closed to not see the difference.

For anybody requiring a more durable paint job, lacquer is the least desirable. Here urethane is the best choice.

[Dick W.]

Re: Acrylic Lacquer versa Base Clear 1971

[QUOTE=Gene Manno (8571);604095]

I have obtained the lacquer look with both single stage and with BC/CC.[/QUOTE

A solid single stage urethane has a greater chance of passing for an original lacquer than metallic bc/cc if the extra effort is put into it. A clear over coat was never used on original lacquer GM applications. A base/clear just does not cut the mustard for use on my cars. No matter what you say I can see with my own eyes it's not like original lacquer. You will in all likely hood pass NCRS judging using base/clear but it still does not look like an original GM lacquer paint job.

Some of us have much higher standards than NCRS judging does. Any implications that bc/cc is original looking to the most critical seeking originality is just not acceptable. Another point the orange peel of urethane is a much larger grain size than lacquer. One would have to have his eyes closed to not see the difference.

For anybody requiring a more durable paint job, lacquer is the least desirable. Here urethane is the best choice.

Each to his own. My painter can/could make BC/CC look like single stage. The clean sure makes it easy to color sand the areas urethane tends to build up on. We even used BC/CC on solid colors, added 10% color to each coat of clear.

[Bill W.]

Re: Acrylic Lacquer versa Base Clear 1971

"Alan wins" . "Its the way the paint LAYS on the car" .Urathane lays on top of what ever it is painted on. It is thicker on the edges,corners,peaks,ETC. it NEVER soaks in to what it is painted on. It does not matter if you tint it ,flatten it,sand it,scotch bright it, if you put 3 coats on you have 3 coats over all your body lines. Urathane dries by chemical reaction .so it stays thick almost no evaporation. Lacquer dries by evaporation . If you have a gallon of lacquer and mix it 2 to 1 you wind up with 3 gallons of sprayable material . The sprayable mix can soak through down to the fiberglass as it dries. A good lacquer job dries from the inside out. Your 3 gallons dries out to be about 2 or 3 qts. of solids when completly dried .(about 6 months).You wind up with almost no film build and nice sharp lines. Is lacquer better ? No. is it correct ?yes. Can I tell the difference on a painted car ?Always. (some are so good I would not deduct any points) For a show car I would use lacquer for a driver urathane.As someone else said most of us Old painters are dead or retired.

[Keith B.]

Re: Acrylic Lacquer versa Base Clear 1971

Hi Dick,
I think you made an important point about the painter's experience with lacquer and how his methods of applying it has had to change as the product has changed over the last 40 years.
The fellow who painted my car works by himself and has never made the switch to the new paints. He continues to have enough customers that want acrylic lacquer on their cars that he can still make a living prepping cars for it and spraying it.
Regards,
Alan

Alan dad and I are banking he can still spray black lacquer.

[Russ S.]

Re: Acrylic Lacquer versa Base Clear 1971

"Alan wins" . "Its the way the paint LAYS on the car" .Urathane lays on top of what ever it is painted on. It is thicker on the edges,corners,peaks,ETC. it NEVER soaks in to what it is painted on. It does not matter if you tint it ,flatten it,sand it,scotch bright it, if you put 3 coats on you have 3 coats over all your body lines. Urathane dries by chemical reaction .so it stays thick almost no evaporation. Lacquer dries by evaporation . If you have a gallon of lacquer and mix it 2 to 1 you wind up with 3 gallons of sprayable material . The sprayable mix can soak through down to the fiberglass as it dries. A good lacquer job dries from the inside out. Your 3 gallons dries out to be about 2 or 3 qts. of solids when completly dried .(about 6 months).You wind up with almost no film build and nice sharp lines. Is lacquer better ? No. is it correct ?yes. Can I tell the difference on a painted car ?Always. (some are so good I would not deduct any points) For a show car I would use lacquer for a driver urathane.As someone else said most of us Old painters are dead or retired.

Bill, I agree the lacquer of old would bite in and soak down but does today's poor lacquer still do that? The reason I ask is because I recently painted a vette with 10 year old lacquer and when I sanded an area or buffed too much it would go thru the top layer and you could see a blotchy area. It appeared as if one coat didn't soak into the previous coat.

[Mike G.]

Re: Acrylic Lacquer versa Base Clear 1971

neither. you can have the best of both worlds with single stage urethane. you can make it look exactly like lacquer and it has the durability of base clear. cant beat that. i have used it on my last few restorations. until they come out with something better i wont use anything else.

[Larry M.]

Re: Acrylic Lacquer versa Base Clear 1971

Gene:

During the 1980-82 time period, I believe that some Corvette colors received a final lacquer clear coat: http://www.web-cars.com/corvette/1982-2.php.

FWIW.

Larry

[Bill W.]

Re: Acrylic Lacquer versa Base Clear 1971

Russ The blothy areas have nothing to do with old or new lacquer. You started with a thicker mix and thined it more as you finished ,or mixed color in your clear . The way i do it is color coat the whole car , install the doors conv top cover etc. (about three coats) let it dry about a week in the sun . color sand with 600 & 1000 wet. then the most important mix all my paint at one time .spray each coat the same stir very well before each pour. put about 3 to5 coats on. buy doing this you get a slick paint job that needs very little or no sanding before buffing to have a st louis looking paint job.

[Gene M.]

Re: Acrylic Lacquer versa Base Clear 1971

Gene:

During the 1980-82 time period, I believe that some Corvette colors received a final lacquer clear coat: http://www.web-cars.com/corvette/1982-2.php.

FWIW.

Larry

Larry,
That may be true. But the topic was a '71 Corvette. I have no interest outside the chrome bumper cars and can not converse on the topic. But thank you for the info anyway.

[Tom A.]

Re: Acrylic Lacquer versa Base Clear 1971

I never recommend using a base clear when there is a single stage formula available. That works great for solid colors. Metallic colors are a different story. Few metallic colors are available in single stage urethane because the metallic is very difficult to control in a slow drying medium. Most often a bc/cc system will be required for metallic colors. If you want to use a single stage finish you can get metallic colors in a catalyzed acrylic enamel such as DuPont Centari. These hold up well compared to lacquer but many paint manufacturers are phasing out their acrylic enamel products to meet EPA regulations also. If you check around there are some metallic colors available in single stage urethane but not many. If you have an older single stage formula for a metallic color hang on to it. Each time I get a color update disc there are fewer and fewer metallic s/s formulas available.

[John H.]

Re: Acrylic Lacquer versa Base Clear 1971

Gene:

During the 1980-82 time period, I believe that some Corvette colors received a final lacquer clear coat: http://www.web-cars.com/corvette/1982-2.php.

FWIW.

Larry

Larry -

That was true for Bowling Green-built cars (base/clear), but not for St. Louis-built 81's (lacquer).

[Howard W.]

Re: Acrylic Lacquer versa Base Clear 1971

Call Rob English at Restoration Connection in Mays Landing, NJ 609 955 7817
Excellent work many NCRS Top Flight and Bloomington Gold cars
Tell him Howard sent you