Why is the Award Confirmation Document so exorbitantly expensive?

[Norris W.]

First off, I think the Delivery Documentation Service is one of the greatest things NCRS has ever offered, and at 40 bucks well worth the price. Having had multiple cars that have Top Flighted over the years (with the certificates on one of them being misplaced, hopefully not permanently) I would really like to have the Award Confirmation Docs on them, but not at $300. each. Unless there is a staggering amount of research required to locate them it would be nice if NCRS would offer the service to owners who actually owned the car at the time of Certification confirmation of the awards at an affordable price.

[Willard M.]

Re: Why is the Award Confirmation Document so exorbitantly expensive?

I agree completely. It seems like gouging to me. There seems to be a disconnect between effort to retrieve the information and price charged.

[Michael J.]

Re: Why is the Award Confirmation Document so exorbitantly expensive?

And remember you pay the money whether or not you get a certificate.

[Pat M.]

Re: Why is the Award Confirmation Document so exorbitantly expensive?

It does seem a little odd to me that the delivery documents are so much less expensive than the award documents.

[Brian M.]

Re: Why is the Award Confirmation Document so exorbitantly expensive?

I have flight judged my car 6 times never judged prior to my ownership, I'd like this document also but not at 300.00 since it's nothing more than I already have. BTW I do have the delivery documentation but already knew the selling dealership still worth the 40.00.

[Norris W.]

Re: Why is the Award Confirmation Document so exorbitantly expensive?

I guess it becomes a question of whether the NCRS is better off and the hobby is better served for there to be dozens sold for $300. or hundreds, even thousands for $30. I haven't seen numbers published, but I'd be willing to bet that the line for people wanting to pay the $300 has been VERY short.

[James B.]

Re: Why is the Award Confirmation Document so exorbitantly expensive?

Ya. since the Award was originally from NCRS and by descrition the documentation as well, where as the Delivery Documentation was originally from GM and the Dealers and required years / decades to originally compile, and then years to convince them to make it available, you would think it would be the other way around - $300.00 for the Delivery Documentation to cover all those years of compilation and convincing and only $40.00 for the award documentation, I mean what could possibly be the cost factor, Look it up, find it, Print it out or copy it, sign it and put a seal on it, no rocket science or major research involved.

[Wayne M.]

Re: Why is the Award Confirmation Document so exorbitantly expensive?

It does seem a little odd to me that the delivery documents are so much less expensive than the award documents.

Shhhh ... they just might find a way to correct that .

[Loren L.]

Re: Why is the Award Confirmation Document so exorbitantly expensive?

Observations - first is the starting point - Barrett-Jackson, where if you want to claim NCRS Awards as part of the car's history, you are REQUIRED to obtain this certificate at the auction. Second, you would never know by its fees that not-for-profit NCRS has in excess of $1,000,000.00 in hand. I note that judging fees for the 2012 National are set at $275, $100 refundable when you actually appear. Ever wonder about what the fee will be when people decide to just not bring their cars and what the effect will be on attendance from the other folks?

[Dick W.]

Re: Why is the Award Confirmation Document so exorbitantly expensive?

. Second, you would never know by its fees that not-for-profit NCRS has in excess of $1,000,000.00 in hand. I note that judging fees for the 2012 National are set at $275, $100 refundable when you actually appear. Ever wonder about what the fee will be when people decide to just not bring their cars and what the effect will be on attendance from the other folks?

Loren, you seem to have a very selective memory. If I remember correctly you were a member of the Board of Directors when a restricted fund, to the tune of $400,000, was created to publish the final Corvette Restorer if the NCRS were to ever cease to do business. Some of us get very tired of the same half truths from you.

If you do not like the fees for the convention, I suggest that you take your car to Bloomington and pay them $575.00 to have your car judged. The convention centers cost $30k to $40k to rent; judges' meals cost upwards of $20 each twice per day, and sometimes quite a bit more, you have to pay dearly for anything in the hotels or convention centers. Power Point projectors are over $100 a day....each! Sound systems have to be paid for, the water for the judges, the reception, etc are very expensive.

I have been involved in several conventions, one as co-chair and the other watching over the budget. The fat you think there is in the budget is not there, nor is a convention that is a large money maker a norm. There have been more conventions that broke even or lost money than there have been that made money. The most profitable convention was a result of NCRS being dealt lemons and the event chairs, the NCRS financial officer, and business manager making lemonade out of them.

There ain't no free lunch for you, Ethel.

[Loren L.]

Re: Why is the Award Confirmation Document so exorbitantly expensive?

First, I believe that the restricted fund for the "Final" Restorer in the event of NCRS failure occurred sometime AFTER the corporation returned from "for profit" to "not-for-profit" status and before by membership on the Board, but no matter.
As to the "half truths" did I miss the amount on hand by that much? How many $$$ are necessary to put out the final magazine, Dick?
Where in my statement do I refer to "The fat...in the budget"? No one doubts the costs of a convention - but with the $$$ on hand, why is it necessary to "make a profit" on them? There is no statement at all to that effect, except for
the one that asks "why" NCRS continues to seek $$$ from the members. Correct me - and I'm sure you'll try - but it seems to me that the last "free" tidbit of information that members received was Volume 16, #1 of the Corvette Restorer
listing part and casting #s, followed soon by the "pocket" or "swap meet" version of the same for sale.
Members of the Board and officers who are convinced that they will be lynched if an event does not "show a profit" should take refuge in the fact that the interest on the $$$ in the bank will make up the difference. By the way, I'm sure that the new owner of Bloomington fully intends to run it as a "for profit" corporation.
You didn't comment on it -but was I wrong when I indicated that at least part of the $$ for the award confirmation could be traced to B-J?

[Norris W.]

Re: Why is the Award Confirmation Document so exorbitantly expensive?

I didn't intend to create a firestorm with a simple question, but it is what it is, so I'll add a comment.

First, I've enjoyed a long membership history (I believe my membership actually goes back to about 1976 or 1977 and after a lapse of several years the history picked it back up at the time of renewal which was '82) that's included multiple Top Flights of my own cars as well as a PV for one of them. I've also guided a friend's car through the process all the way to a Duntov. Yes, I had a truly frustrating and unexplainable judging experience at a regional where both you Dick, and Dennis Clark were present and I made my concerns known to both at the time which were pretty much ignored, and in all honesty it made me question whether the whole process at the time was worth the trouble. So what. I've had a bad experience in a favorite resturant and patronize it today because overall it's great and the best thing going. Such is my opinion of NCRS. Few things in life are perfect. Are there some over active egos and some inside cliques that outsiders are frustrated by? Absolutely. Do those outweigh the overall positives and the present state of the Corvette restoration hobby that's directly attributable to NCRS? Not hardly.

I DO believe that NCRS is all about the preservation of the Corvette in it's purest form, while based on my multi year experience at Bloomington in late 80's/early 90's feel it is all about the money. When NCRS has policies that seem to show preference for profit over the good of the hobby or the preferences of the members, then questions are raised.

The sole purpose of beginning this discussion was to ask the simple question, WHY is it necessary for the NCRS to charge a member who spent the time and money to restore a car, to deliver or ship it to an NCRS event or multiple events, who paid all the required fees at the time, $300 bucks to furnish a simple document that says, "yeah, that car received a XXX award at YYY event in the year ZZZZ, when documents from an outside source (GM delivery information) can be researched and documented for about 13% of the amount? So far I haven't seen an answer.

[Roy S.]

Re: Why is the Award Confirmation Document so exorbitantly expensive?

[Norris W.]

Re: Why is the Award Confirmation Document so exorbitantly expensive?

Roy, while I agree with your comments on the value of the service for a potential car buyer. It's impossible to know if price is the issue with other auction houses and in my personal case it's irrelevant. Unfortunately, I still do not see an answer to my question here, which was "why is the service so exorbitantly expensive?" Is the NCRS all about making the money now, or still focused on the betterment of the hobby as I've always thought?

I'll also ask the question again, is the hobby (and the club) better off with providing a this service in limited quantities for what seems an extreme price, or with 10X the volume at 1/10th of the price producing the same gross revenue? In my own case I would like to have it on both my Top Flight cars but would ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to pay $600 for it over the principle if nothing else. None of my collectible vehicles are for sale and collecting documentation is about the hobby rather than the dollars. I suspect that from the "information wanted" section in the Driveline that many other members have similar interests. The popularity of the reasonably priced documents such as the Delivery Document also supports this belief. Personally I believe the club should make available to it's members anything and everything available that enhances interest in the hobby and feel that price gouging has no place in the process.

If it seems too pricey, just don’t order it, if the service dies for lack of support then so be it.

Roy, with all due respect I'm shocked by that comment. Am I understanding that you are basically saying that the powers that be would rather see the service "die from lack of support" than price it at a reasonable level that would make it popular? If so, that is a sad commentary on the current priorities of the organization.

[Roy S.]

Re: Why is the Award Confirmation Document so exorbitantly expensive?

Not at all Norris, I simply said the price was established by the Board of Directors, that it had nothing to do with Barrett-Jackson and that I think depending on the situation can have just as much value when it comes back with absence of records as it does with records.