Rear Crossmember Rivets on 58 - NCRS Discussion Boards

Rear Crossmember Rivets on 58

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  • Brandon T.
    Very Frequent User
    • October 23, 2008
    • 872

    Rear Crossmember Rivets on 58

    Does the rivets that hold the rear crossmember on go through the frame then down through the crossmember? This would put the mushroom end of the rivet on the top side resting on the frame and the rivited end at the crossmember. Just don't want to install it wrong. The old crossmember had been changed before and had bolts holding the crossmember on.
  • Al E.
    Expired
    • September 5, 2011
    • 313

    #2
    Re: Rear Crossmember Rivets on 58

    Brandon,

    My mushroom is on the top, but my car is a 1960. SO I am not sure if it was the standard for all years.

    Comment

    • Rod K.
      Very Frequent User
      • April 1, 1990
      • 443

      #3
      Re: Rear Crossmember Rivets on 58

      Brandon,

      Head of the rivet is on the bottom against the crossmember, smooshed on top inside the frame rail.

      Comment

      • Brandon T.
        Very Frequent User
        • October 23, 2008
        • 872

        #4
        Re: Rear Crossmember Rivets on 58

        Rod are you 100% sure the rivet goes on the bottom against the crossmember? Al and a friend of mine said the mushroom end of the rivet goes on top inside the frame rail. Let me know how you determined the head of the rivet goes against the crossmember.

        Comment

        • Brandon T.
          Very Frequent User
          • October 23, 2008
          • 872

          #5
          Re: Rear Crossmember Rivets on 58

          Al I think you are correct but Rod Kramer seems to think they go in from the bottom at the crossmember.

          Comment

          • Rod K.
            Very Frequent User
            • April 1, 1990
            • 443

            #6
            Re: Rear Crossmember Rivets on 58

            Brandon,

            I replaced my crossmember recently and in my judgement found the head was on the bottom. The peened or set end was on the top inside the rear of the frame side rails. The set (peened) end could, and as I recall, did, look a lot like the head as they probably used a concave shaped tool to peen it to form something similar to the head shape, but I decided the top end looked enough different from the head of the new rivet, and the bottom end looked like the new rivet head.

            I'm not clear on what Al refers to as the "mushroom", as on mine both ends were similar, but I would expect all C1s to be the same. I can't say that 100% of Corvettes were this way, but once a manufacturer sets up a process they usually don't change unless there's a real problem due to tooling changes required, etc.

            Probably would be a good idea to get some additional input, esp from your specific year model, and make your own observations if at all possible.

            Comment

            • Brandon T.
              Very Frequent User
              • October 23, 2008
              • 872

              #7
              Re: Rear Crossmember Rivets on 58

              Thanks for the reply Rod. Al is refering to the new rivet has a rounded head that looks like a mushroom. I have been told whey you heat the rivet and use a air hammer the rivet will look about the same on both ends. I plan on going to look at a friend of mine car to see how his is installed. Thanks for your feedback.

              Comment

              • Al E.
                Expired
                • September 5, 2011
                • 313

                #8
                Re: Rear Crossmember Rivets on 58

                Rod,

                Sorry , when I say Mushroom I guess I should have a lot more clear. The rounded edge or domed edge is at the bottom. But, the stud is then mushroomed or smashed down at the top. I am not sure how or what they used to insert the rivets and make them stay but mine looks to be pressed in, then smashed on the top. I am not 100% so I assume that is how it was held in place, by inserting it in then pressing it out from the top. My rail is in need of replacing and I can tell you no one has done any work to mine.

                Comment

                • Rod K.
                  Very Frequent User
                  • April 1, 1990
                  • 443

                  #9
                  Re: Rear Crossmember Rivets on 58

                  So it now sounds like Al's is the same as mine. Yes, the head, or the "mushroom" end was on the bottom. When I replaced mine I had to replace the part of the frame rail under the crossmember as well. I then backed up the rivet by setting the whole frame/crossmember assy on a jack stand with the rivet head resting on some extra "bubba" pieces on the stand. This gave me a solid backing to peen the rivet. I heated it and used a piece of round steel bar with a concave end to try to form the rivet similar to the head. Kind of worked, would have been easier with a proper air hammer tool but I didn't have one.

                  I'm pretty sure the manufacturer would have fixtured everything more professionally, maybe upside down so the rivets could be dropped in (not a press fit) and held by Gravity, then tools would be placed to back up the heads and peen or spin the straight end, probably cold.

                  Oh, one thing I spent a little time on was getting the frame rail spacing as it was originally. This was in part due to having replaced the portion of the side rails which had the rivet holes, so I had to set the distance, then add the new holes in the rails for the rivets. Just something to keep in mind if your side rails are rotted like mine were.

                  Comment

                  • Brandon T.
                    Very Frequent User
                    • October 23, 2008
                    • 872

                    #10
                    Re: Rear Crossmember Rivets on 58

                    I just read your post and I am really confused. I went and looked at my freinds 57 and he just finished replacing his rear crossmember and still has his body off and the rounded end of the rivet is on top inside his frame rails. He used a air hammer and a 3/16 tool to compress it after heating it and it looks almost like the other end after completing the installation. I'm wondering if they might have been put in both ways. My friend has been restoring vettes for 30 years and is just hard to think he put his in backward because he took off his origional crossmember and put the new one back on the same way.The straight end was rounded just like the other end just a little smaller. I tried to call Paragon to see what they knew but that had already closed. If I find out more information I will let you know. This is why I like the NCRS forum.

                    Comment

                    • Rod K.
                      Very Frequent User
                      • April 1, 1990
                      • 443

                      #11
                      Re: Rear Crossmember Rivets on 58

                      At this point I think I'd contact your judging team leader listed inside the front cover of the Restorer.

                      Comment

                      • Thomas H.
                        Extremely Frequent Poster
                        • August 31, 2005
                        • 1058

                        #12
                        Re: Rear Crossmember Rivets on 58

                        On my 60 (may not be applicable, but FWIW) The rivets are installed from the bottom up. Picture shows my crossmember before I replaced it.

                        Tom

                        IMGP7183.jpg
                        1958, 283/245, White/red - Top Flight, October 2016
                        1960, Black/black, 283/230 4sp
                        1966, Black/Red, 327/350 4sp w/AC
                        1967, 427/390, 4sp, Goodwood Green, Coupe
                        1971 LS5, 4sp, coupe, Bridgehampton Blue
                        2007 Z06, Lemans Blue

                        Newsletter Editor, Delaware Valley Chapter

                        Comment

                        • Keith R.
                          Very Frequent User
                          • August 31, 2001
                          • 660

                          #13
                          Re: Rear Crossmember Rivets on 58

                          Working on my frame (60) currently and the rear crossmember has never been replaced. The large domed head of the rivet is inserted from the bottom and the end of the rivet is rounded off inside the frame member. See attached picsIMG_0310.JPGIMG_0309.JPGIMG_0311.JPG
                          Keith MacRae
                          NCRS #36692
                          New Mexico Chapter
                          1960 290HP FI
                          2013 427 Convertible

                          Shade tree mechanic and
                          B-52 pilot extraordinaire

                          Comment

                          • John H.
                            Beyond Control Poster
                            • December 1, 1997
                            • 16513

                            #14
                            Re: Rear Crossmember Rivets on 58

                            That C1 rear crossmember came as part of the frame - it was installed at the A.O. Smith frame plant in Milwaukee; the rivets were cold-set using high-pressure hydraulic "C"-frame riveters similar to the one shown in the photo below. The same riveting process and hydraulic tooling is still used today on truck frames and crossmembers, both at the frame plants and at the truck assembly plants.


                            Riveter800.JPG

                            Comment

                            • Steven B.
                              Extremely Frequent Poster
                              • June 30, 1982
                              • 3989

                              #15
                              Re: Rear Crossmember Rivets on 58

                              Originally posted by Brandon Thompson (49614)
                              I just read your post and I am really confused. I went and looked at my freinds 57 and he just finished replacing his rear crossmember and still has his body off and the rounded end of the rivet is on top inside his frame rails. He used a air hammer and a 3/16 tool to compress it after heating it and it looks almost like the other end after completing the installation. I'm wondering if they might have been put in both ways. My friend has been restoring vettes for 30 years and is just hard to think he put his in backward because he took off his origional crossmember and put the new one back on the same way.The straight end was rounded just like the other end just a little smaller. I tried to call Paragon to see what they knew but that had already closed. If I find out more information I will let you know. This is why I like the NCRS forum.
                              My '57 still has the original crossmenber. The rounded or "mushroom" end is on the crossmember side, installed from the bottom with the "hammered" end on the top side or frame side. I have had the car since 11/64 and the previous owners did not replace the crossmember so I know it is factory installed.

                              Steve

                              Comment

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