Starter Internals- What is the Difference

[Monte M.]

I have found the correct starter for my 1972, 454, 4-speed with a/c. Number 1108400 is the number on the case.

The question is: How do I tell if it is the correct internal or if it has been gone throught by some shop in its past.

I have no problem taking it apart, but I do not know what to look for to tell if it has the high torque guts in it.

Can anybody help point me in a direction. Are the windings different? It the spring different? Is the armature different. You get the picture

It does me no good to put a numbers matching starter in the car if it cannot do the job. Plus, the car now has 10:1 pistons in it.

Anything you guys can help with would be appreciated.

PS Still looking for a 1100544 alternator for the same Aprilbuilt car. And of course: The carb. (lol)

[Gene M.]

Re: Starter Internals- What is the Difference

Monte,
I replaced the starter case windings about 35 years ago. Is I recall I was seeking more torque starter out put. The new Delco winds were thicker stack of wire wrapings compared to the originals. Also seem to recall they were big block winds (Hi torque) according to parts guy, that I put in a small block starter. Armature was not changed, just all cleaned and new brushes. I was happy with performance. Sorry I didn't same any part number information. I bet if I were to look the original windings are still here somewhere........

[Joe L.]

Re: Starter Internals- What is the Difference

I have found the correct starter for my 1972, 454, 4-speed with a/c. Number 1108400 is the number on the case.

The question is: How do I tell if it is the correct internal or if it has been gone throught by some shop in its past.

I have no problem taking it apart, but I do not know what to look for to tell if it has the high torque guts in it.

Can anybody help point me in a direction. Are the windings different? It the spring different? Is the armature different. You get the picture

It does me no good to put a numbers matching starter in the car if it cannot do the job. Plus, the car now has 10:1 pistons in it.

Anything you guys can help with would be appreciated.

PS Still looking for a 1100544 alternator for the same Aprilbuilt car. And of course: The carb. (lol)

Monte-----

The GM #1108400 is a "high torque" starter. It has different field coils and a different armature than "standard torque" starters. Other than the field coils and armature, it's pretty much the same as standard Delco starters of the period. It's unlikely that a commercial rebuilder or others would have used an 1108400 starter frame (the heavy tube section that makes up the body of the starter) to build up a standard torque starter. However, it's not totally beyond the realm of possibility. It's easy to check, though. Just look at where the field coil terminal comes out of the frame to the rear of the solenoid. If the field coil terminal contacts the solenoid directly, the starter has been converted to standard torque with standard torque internals. If there is a small, tubular copper spacer about 3/4" OL between the field coil terminal and the solenoid, it remains a high torque starter. I should also point out that if it was converted to standard torque, there will be a plug where the original field coil terminal once emanated from the frame. I have seen some high torque starters that did suffer this conversion at the hands of a commercial rebuilder but it's pretty rare.

Otherwise, the 1108400 starter should have a cast iron nose piece which uses two "long" starter bolts for attachment to the block.

In summary, if it has the copper spacer between the field coil terminal and the solenoid and it has a cast iron nose, the chances are VERY GREAT that it retains the original internal configuration of the 1108400 and there's really no need to disassemble it to confirm that.

[Monte M.]

Re: Starter Internals- What is the Difference

Joe,
Once again, excellent information. Thanks for taking the time, and yes, it is still a high torque set-up.
Monte

[Monte M.]

Re: Starter Internals- What is the Difference

Joe,
In looking at the starter, you mentioned the field coil terminal comes out of the frame at the "rear" of the coil. This might be a dumb question, but did you mean "front". Are you talking about the where the small bolt goes through the terminals and into the lower portion of the coil on the front where the other wire terminals are?
I have about a half a dozen starters here and every one has the copper tube on the lower terminal of the front of the coil.
Plus, you mentioned the plug that would be in place of where the terminals would have come out. The terminalstill come out of the same general place, just the opposite end of the approximate 1" opening.
I am just trying to understand this fully.
Monte

[Terry M.]

Re: Starter Internals- What is the Difference

Plus, you mentioned the plug that would be in place of where the terminals would have come out. The terminalstill come out of the same general place, just the opposite end of the approximate 1" opening.
Monte

Yes, that is right.

[Monte M.]

Re: Starter Internals- What is the Difference

Thanks Terry,
Been a long time since I have talked to you.
I hope all is well.
Monte

[Joe L.]

Re: Starter Internals- What is the Difference

Joe,
In looking at the starter, you mentioned the field coil terminal comes out of the frame at the "rear" of the coil. This might be a dumb question, but did you mean "front". Are you talking about the where the small bolt goes through the terminals and into the lower portion of the coil on the front where the other wire terminals are?
I have about a half a dozen starters here and every one has the copper tube on the lower terminal of the front of the coil.
Plus, you mentioned the plug that would be in place of where the terminals would have come out. The terminalstill come out of the same general place, just the opposite end of the approximate 1" opening.
I am just trying to understand this fully.
Monte

Monte------


I think there's just a difference of opinion on what is front and rear. I consider the FRONT of the solenoid to be the end with the plunger since that's the end facing what I consider the front of the starter (i.e. the end with the starter nose housing and facing the front of the car).

As far as the starter field coil terminal opening goes, not all starters have the larger opening you describe. In this case, if a starter frame is converted from high to low torque (or, vice-versa), the original hole is plugged and a new hole is drilled. I have not seen a lot of these but I have seen a few. Generally, a rebuilder is not going to convert such a frame since that adds effort (and cost).

[Monte M.]

Re: Starter Internals- What is the Difference

Joe,
It makes a lot of sence that way.
As a kid we went to church and faced the alter. Needless to say, the alter was in the front of the church. My grandfather used to ask me, while we were standng just outside the front doors of the church, "Where are we. At the front of the church or the back" I would answer "the front" We would then take one step inside the church, and the alter was on the opposite end, putting us at theback of the church. He would then ask "Where are we? At the front or the back of the church" Of course I would say "the back" because the alter is at the front of the church. He would then ask me to explain how we only took one step, yet we went from the front of the church to the back of the church.
My point is: thereare many ways to figure out the front or the back. Your explaination answered my question so I now have a clear understanding of my question.
Than you and have a nice day,
Monte