K.O spinner center cap -- color order

[Wayne M.]

Got my Restorer/Driveline package a few hours ago; opened to Restorer article on knock-offs, and in the last paragraph on pg. 8, is written: "...red, white, and blue, and would be in different order for each side of the car so that when the wheels were turning forward, the colors should rotate red, then white, then blue".

I thought we buried this one a few years ago, IIRC. This tale might have arisen due to (some of ?) the GM service center caps being of a different order than '64-6 factory, which was red/white/blue [rotating clockwise], irrespective of LH or RH spinners.

Notice the eBay auction of David Cosner's caps; out of 31, 28 are R/W/B, 2 are R/
B/W (and one is not clear). Driver side NOS service spinnner pics show R/B/W, rolling forward on one and R/W/B on the other. The service center cap, part #3853825 (there's no other parts catalog number) presents R/W/B rolling forward on the passenger side. But the packaging indicates "made in Canada", so now we know who to blame .

[Vinnie P.]

Re: K.O spinner center cap -- color order

Wayne...yes you are correct...and a correction will be published in the next issue...Some things get by and this was one of them...
Vinnie

[James W.]

Re: K.O spinner center cap -- color order

This was bought up at the AJS on Saturday in Kissimmee. I was skeptical when told this that GM would go the trouble to have a left and a right side part number for a center cap.


Thanks,

James West

[Gary S.]

Re: K.O spinner center cap -- color order

Found these two spinners in a flea market vendor's glass case at the Old Town meet last week. He only had two spinners and the vendor told me they were off a 1965. Shown is one left spin and one right spin with reversed cap colors. One cap colors look brighter than the other, but that could be a sun exposure issue. I judge 65 exteriors mostly, and Mike Murray told me not to judge center cap color rotation, so I don't. I guess until a definite comes along, that should be the call.

Also attached is a picture I took off ebay in 2010 of NOS caps being auctioned. I can't see the numbers clearly enough to be sure if they are different...maybe someone has better equipment to see it.

KOcapColors65OrigFloridaNCRSFleaMkt2012.JPG
KOcapsRedBlueWhite.JPG
KOcenterCapsNOSreverseColors.jpg

[Philip C.]

Re: K.O spinner center cap -- color order

HI Gary for FYI both those spinners were rechromed. Phil 8063

[Bill W.]

Re: K.O spinner center cap -- color order

Wayne,
I agree with you. If the colors appear in differant order it was not done on purpose. I have been restoring these wheels since 1972, I've seen hundreds of center caps and only a very few were painted both ways. Had they been painted both ways by the factory there would be a second part number. There isn't and never has been. Bill

[Stuart F.]

Re: K.O spinner center cap -- color order

Perhaps a little off subject, but you fellows seem to know the K.O. wheel scene; I saw a set of K.O. wheels on a car at the winter meet with the spinners safety wired to one of the wheel spokes. Is this a common practice? It wasn't too noticeable, but it does make for a long wire which I wonder how often it needs to be tightened.

Stu Fox

[Don H.]

Re: K.O spinner center cap -- color order

Thanks for a very interesting thread. I have had direct bolt ons for almost 10 years and NEVER noticed that I have both color configurations (obviously not original pieces). I would tend to agree GM only had one type originally. Don H.

[James W.]

Re: K.O spinner center cap -- color order

Another picture taken in my basement over the weekend. All of these caps are GM Canada with an October 1977 date. So it is a given that these caps in the picture with the exception of the far right cap are not correct? We have established that the correct color order of a KO center cap should be red, white, blue when rotated counter clockwise... Yes?


James West

[Wayne M.]

Re: K.O spinner center cap -- color order

..... So it is a given that these caps in the picture with the exception of the far right cap are not correct? We have established that the correct color order of a KO center cap should be red, white, blue when rotated counter clockwise... Yes? ...

James -- almost. the 3 center caps on left are TFP; and present red/white/blue when you rotate your finger clockwise around the circumference of the cap.

Here's the 4 off my original '66 set of 5 KO's (off VIN 13162). You can see by the spinners that the driver side rolling forward, rotating counter-clockwise as viewed from the curb, will present red/white/blue past a fixed datum. And the passenger side will present red/blue/white.

Obviously, the blue was the weakest color against the elements.

[Michael H.]

Re: K.O spinner center cap -- color order

I don't want to get into a shootin match on this but ..... in about 1976, Buxbaum bought an incredible untouched original ultra low mileage red 64 FI conv that had it's original factory installed KO wheels. (and tires, and paint, and everything else)

The KO caps had the color pattern going in one direction on one side of the car and the opposite on the other side.

I've also owned two complete sets of NOS wheels/spinners purchased around 1964 and the spinners also had the opposite color pattern from side to side.

IF... this was actually the original plan from the start, it may not have lasted into the 65 model year because I've had many sets of 65-66 wheels/spinners that did not have the reverse pattern.

I wonder if the original blueprint on the spinner or cap would have shown two part numbers for the cap? If so, was one dropped for service? Or was it just random application of the color pattern?
The service cap was 3853825 so, could the original other number be 3853824 or 3853826?

The part numbers for the spinner assembly with cap was 3853795 and 3853796. The original print would be interesting.

[Wayne M.]

Re: K.O spinner center cap -- color order

other number[/I] be 3853824 or 3853826?

The part numbers for the spinner assembly with cap was 3853795 and 3853796. The original print would be interesting.

Interesting to examine the P&A catalogs; the KO spinner emblem shows up first in the Oct '67 [1st issue] of the '68 P&A30. Prior to that, if you lost or damaged your center cap, it seems you had to buy a new spinner assy .

P.S. In the 1966 dealer showroom brochure, the color pic of the nassau blue car w/KO's, inside back cover, shows driver front wheel with red/white/blue (clockwise finger) or same rolling forward (spinner rotating counter-clockwise). I realize those pre-production printings are notorious for having the artwork different than production, though. And it tells us nothing about the invisible passenger side.