Dash Tab Rivets

[Jim S.]

After close inspection of many dash tabs , I have noticed one common factor , the center hole is deep. (See photo #1 )

I have experimented with two different Pop Rivets, and two different Pop Rivet tools , and both give me a result in which the center hole is completely filled with the cut off pin.
By that I mean the pin is cut off flush with the outside of the whole . ( see photo #2)

What am I missing here ? Steel rivet vs aluminium rivet , better tool vs cheaper tool ??

Jim

[Michael G.]

Re: Dash Tab Rivets

After close inspection of many dash tabs , I have noticed one common factor , the center hole is deep. (See photo #1 )

I have experimented with two different Pop Rivets, and two different Pop Rivet tools , and both give me a result in which the center hole is completely filled with the cut off pin.
By that I mean the pin is cut off flush with the outside of the whole . ( see photo #2)

What am I missing here ? Steel rivet vs aluminium rivet , better tool vs cheaper tool ??

Jim

Based on my experiences (Jim) with numerous dashes, rivets appearing to be aluminum. While installing the rivets (using aluminum rivets), some would break off even at the head, others would pull the shaft completely out showing the hole. Don't believe any riveting tool I've used would guarantee a consistant result either way. IMO feel either the shaft will break off even or completely pull out.

[William L.]

Re: Dash Tab Rivets

After the original pop rivet has been drilled out, the original hole is sometimes slightly larger and when you pull the new rivet the tensile strength of the pin may not be reached until the pin is further up the hole. Hope this makes sense. The fix is, take a punch or the pull part of the pop rivet and tap the pin back into the rivet hole as deep as you want it to be.
I was a sheet metal repairman in the Air Force and shot more rivets than I care to remember. When a B52 took off you could almost see the pop rivets coming out of the flaps.
Bill

[Jim S.]

Re: Dash Tab Rivets

After the original pop rivet has been drilled out, the original hole is sometimes slightly larger and when you pull the new rivet the tensile strength of the pin may not be reached until the pin is further up the hole. Hope this makes sense. The fix is, take a punch or the pull part of the pop rivet and tap the pin back into the rivet hole as deep as you want it to be.
I was a sheet metal repairman in the Air Force and shot more rivets than I care to remember. When a B52 took off you could almost see the pop rivets coming out of the flaps.
Bill

Bill ,

Could you punch the pin all the way out and still feel secure that the rivets will still be secure ?

As I stated in prior post to Michael, I always felt that the pin was deeper in the hole on original dash rivets , now I think I am am hearing that the pin was probably pulled out entirely. Is that correct ? If so might a stronger rivet also be the answer ?

Thanks for the help,

Jim

Jim

[Jim S.]

Re: Dash Tab Rivets

Based my experiences (Jim) with numerous dashes, rivests appearing to be aluminum. While installing the rivets (using aluminum rivets), some would break off even at the head, others would pull the shaft completely out showing the hole. Don't believe any riveting tool I've used would guarantee a consistant result either way. IMO feel either the shaft will break off even or completely pull out.

Michael,

Is that why the originals looked hollow , because the pin was completely pulled out , or was it just futher back ? If it was because it was pulled out , might not a stouter rivet , as opposed to the Ace Cheapies , accomplish the same result?

And thanks for clarifying Aluminum !

Thanks for the time ,

Jim

[William L.]

Re: Dash Tab Rivets

Bill ,

Could you punch the pin all the way out and still feel secure that the rivets will still be secure ?

As I stated in prior post to Michael, I always felt that the pin was deeper in the hole on original dash rivets , now I think I am am hearing that the pin was probably pulled out entirely. Is that correct ? If so might a stronger rivet also be the answer ?

Thanks for the help,

Jim

Jim

Jim
I went and looked at my 67. The rivets are original and it looks like 3 of the pins have pulled all the way through. In my opinion it make very little difference if the pin is left in or not. I'm not an engineer but I would guess that it is slightly less likely to vibrate loose if the pin is left in. All that been said, Its not a structural part of the car.. If a rivet ever comes loose carefully drill it out and pull a new pop rivet.
Bill

[Jim S.]

Re: Dash Tab Rivets

[QUOTE=William Lacy (14279);596880]Jim
I went and looked at my 67. The rivets are original and it looks like 3 of the pins have pulled all the way through. In my opinion it make very little difference if the pin is left in or not. I'm not an engineer but I would guess that it is slightly less likely to vibrate loose if the pin is left in. All that been said, Its not a structural part of the car.. If a rivet ever comes loose carefully drill it out and pull a new pop rivet.
Bill[/QUOTE


Bill,

That all makes sense .I think I will not worry as much as I have about weather the pin is in or out , because I tried your idea about punching the pin back in a little , and it works great !Leaves a nice size hole/gap in the rivet head ! It is good to know however, that the originals came both ways .

Thanks again ,

Jim

[Michael G.]

Re: Dash Tab Rivets

Michael,

Is that why the originals looked hollow , because the pin was completely pulled out , or was it just futher back ? If it was because it was pulled out , might not a stouter rivet , as opposed to the Ace Cheapies , accomplish the same result?

And thanks for clarifying Aluminum !

Thanks for the time ,

Jim

Yes, the pin has pulled completely through the rivet however there is no concern the rivet isn't secure. The rivet is quite secure in as much as the rivet where the pin just plainly broke off. A "stouter" rivet is not the issue. The rivets you've used are just fine. Some will have a hole showing, others will have the remnants of the broken off pin. No problems.

[Russ S.]

Re: Dash Tab Rivets

Michael,

Is that why the originals looked hollow , because the pin was completely pulled out , or was it just futher back ? If it was because it was pulled out , might not a stouter rivet , as opposed to the Ace Cheapies , accomplish the same result?

And thanks for clarifying Aluminum !

Thanks for the time ,

Jim

It would be imposable for the pin to pull completely thru as it would have to pull up into the riveter nose which could not happen.

[Michael G.]

Re: Dash Tab Rivets

It would be imposable for the pin to pull completely thru as it would have to pull up into the riveter nose which could not happen.

Not impossible at all. Riveting tools are designed to hold the pin in the head (nose)of the riveting tool during the flaring process. The pins sole purpose is to flair the end of the rivet for attachment purposes. Either the pin will pull through or will break off leaving the remaining portion of the pin in the head (nose).

[Russ S.]

Re: Dash Tab Rivets

The pin has a head on it that is larger than the opening in the rivet. The pin head can not pull thru this smaller hole.And even if it could get thru the rivet ,the nose of the rivet gun is tight up against the rivet head as it is pulling the pin thru therefore the pin head would have to be pulling into the tiny hole in the nose. Imposable.

[William L.]

Re: Dash Tab Rivets

Not impossible at all. Riveting tools are designed to hold the pin in the head (nose)of the riveting tool during the flaring process. The pins sole purpose is to flair the end of the rivet for attachment purposes. Either the pin will pull through or will break off leaving the remaining portion of the pin in the head (nose).

You have it 100% correct....

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Dash Tab Rivets

After the original pop rivet has been drilled out, the original hole is sometimes slightly larger and when you pull the new rivet the tensile strength of the pin may not be reached until the pin is further up the hole. Hope this makes sense. The fix is, take a punch or the pull part of the pop rivet and tap the pin back into the rivet hole as deep as you want it to be.
I was a sheet metal repairman in the Air Force and shot more rivets than I care to remember. When a B52 took off you could almost see the pop rivets coming out of the flaps.
Bill

BILL
I will bet it was a bit disconcerning that were flying the BUF'S in the day. LOL
KEN