Commercially Rebuilt Parts - NCRS Discussion Boards

Commercially Rebuilt Parts

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Joe L.
    Beyond Control Poster
    • February 1, 1988
    • 43219

    Commercially Rebuilt Parts

    As many of you know, I've stated my LOW OPINION of most commercially rebuilt parts on numerous occasions in the past. Although it does not involve a Corvette, I've had another experience with commercially rebuilt parts that reinforces my opinion once again. Specifically, I recently got involved in a rear brake job on my old 1989 Cadillac Eldorado (my back-up for my driver car). I discovered that the calipers needed to be overhauled or replaced. With some trepidation, I decided that I'd buy a set of rebuilt calipers to "keep it simple". My local Delco dealer did not have Delco-branded calipers immediately available but did have Raybestos "Professional Grade" rebuilt calipers so I purchased those. These calipers included the caliper bracket and were supposed to be ready to install pads and bolt on. Quite frankly, I expect that the Delco-brand would have been no different----rebuilt calipers from the same rebuilding source but in Delco boxes.

    Opening the boxes, I was not really very impressed with the apparent quality of these calipers but I figured they'd work OK. Well, I found that with the new OEM GM pads I installed and FULLY SEATED ON THE CALIPER AND PISTON there was insufficient space between the pads to accommodate the rotor. The maximum space between the pads was 0.430 and the rotors are 0.494" thick. Even if the rotors were at discard thickness the rotors would not fit between the pads mounted in the calipers.

    Of course, the rear calipers on the car are a little complicated since there is an integral mechanical parking brake mechanism. However, I had the pistons in the absolute most retracted position possible. I struggled with this for HOURS and NO WAY could I achieve a situation in which I could get the rotor between the pads. I even purchased a set of cheap aftermarket pads hoping that they would be thinner. They wouldn't work, either.

    So, what's the problem? I don't know. The cores the calipers were rebuilt from appear to be correct. So, I expect the problem relates to some of the internal parts that were used to rebuild the calipers----possibly some off-spec pistons, actuator screw, or other parts which affect the position of the piston in its most retracted position. I wasn't going to take them apart to find out. I'll just return them.

    So, what now? I guess I'll have to rebuild my existing calipers. I KNOW they worked and I usually have pretty good luck rebuilding my own components.

    The whole point here is BEWARE OF COMMERCIALLY REBUILT parts. I've gotten burned a pretty good percentage of the relatively few times I've used them. It seems to me that anything resembling quality control is sorely lacking on these. In fact and for example, the parking brake cable bracket attached to one of these calipers was loose out-of-the-box and the "stubs" of the outboard pad retaining clips of pads that previously resided there were still to be found in the caliper body! Oh, and in case you're starting to think these things were probably remanufactured in China, Taiwan, or Mexico, put that out of your mind. The box clearly stated "Remanufactured in USA".

    While the above example involves a Cadillac Eldorado, commercially rebuilt parts are also obviously available for Corvettes, too. My recommendation: AVOID IF POSSIBLE AND BEWARE IF PURCHASED.
    In Appreciation of John Hinckley
  • Edward J.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • September 15, 2008
    • 6942

    #2
    Re: Commercially Rebuilt Parts

    Joe, Do the pads have a square raise knoch that the pads recede into on the caliper? are the e/brake cables inproperly adjusted keeping the the piston slightly out, I have seen this before.the e/brake levers should be fully rested against the stops.
    Last edited by Edward J.; January 22, 2012, 09:55 AM.
    New England chapter member, 63 Convert. 327/340- Chapter/Regional/national Top Flight, 72 coupe- chapter and regional Top Flight.

    Comment

    • Bill H.
      Expired
      • August 8, 2011
      • 439

      #3
      Re: Commercially Rebuilt Parts

      Originally posted by Joe Lucia (12484)
      As many of you know, I've stated my LOW OPINION of most commercially rebuilt parts on numerous occasions in the past. .
      I agree 100%.

      And the scariest thing would be brake parts. I see constant complaints and returns on one large rebuilder out there, woulldn't even think about buying something like a power brake booster from them.

      There was big problem on LT1 clutch slave cylinders that went on for a long time. These were purchased from different vendors, all failed so - rebuilt by one company and reboxed? Probably. What was the problem? -- The seals on all of them were on backwards.

      I'm even leery of "Remanufactured in USA" because parts sellers probably don't care, could easily be "Reboxed in USA".

      Many parts aren't hard to rebuild, calipers, m/c's but when the rebuilds need "special tooling", you're kinda screwed.

      It's probably worse on the newer cars, at least with the older car parts you can find a small reputable shop that does quality work (like the guys in Driveline).

      Comment

      • Gene M.
        Extremely Frequent Poster
        • April 1, 1985
        • 4232

        #4
        Re: Commercially Rebuilt Parts

        Joe,
        I've had bad experiences with brake parts too. These are all for a Corvette. I went thru 4 master cylinders both delco new and rebuilt ones. All name brand stuff. All had a bad front or a bad rear side. This was for a non power brake 71. I got sick and tired of the crap and decided to send out to Stainless Steel Brakes and got a good one. Much greater cost but ya get what ya pay for.......

        Just as a side note the bad Delco units were china crap.

        Comment

        • Ken A.
          Very Frequent User
          • July 31, 1986
          • 929

          #5
          Re: Commercially Rebuilt Parts

          Joe,
          We have found that GM uses different thickness rotors on some vehicles. Nowadays, suppliers sell "loaded" calipers to remedy the problem. For example, there are 26 brake caliper part #'s for my 2003 pickup truck & 38 shock part #'s. Delco uses Raybestos as their current supplier.

          Comment

          • Edward J.
            Extremely Frequent Poster
            • September 15, 2008
            • 6942

            #6
            Re: Commercially Rebuilt Parts

            Guys, Ive been a Delco tech center(repair shop) for many years ,There just about no parts that Delco makes any more, its all re-boxed parts everything is out sourced. Joe has stated this before, so for those of you useing the current Delco boxed parts or reman.parts There not what the use to be. Its to bad as I was a believer of there quality.Its seems as though China, Mexico, and else where and making many of our current automotive parts. I sure as time goes on the quality control will get better.
            New England chapter member, 63 Convert. 327/340- Chapter/Regional/national Top Flight, 72 coupe- chapter and regional Top Flight.

            Comment

            • Joe L.
              Beyond Control Poster
              • February 1, 1988
              • 43219

              #7
              Re: Commercially Rebuilt Parts

              Originally posted by Edward Johnson (49497)
              Joe, Do the pads have a square raise knoch that the pads recede into on the caliper? are the e/brake cables inproperly adjusted keeping the the piston slightly out, I have seen this before.the e/brake levers should be fully rested against the stops.
              Edward-------

              The rears of the OEM brake pads are shown below. The outer pad is the first picture. The two clips snap into orifices on the outer body of the caliper and the rear of the pad seats against the caliper body. The second picture shows the inner pad. The 2 small "posts" on the rear fit into cutouts on the piston. With the "posts" in the cutouts, the rear of the pad seats against the piston.

              After having problems installing the calipers on the car, I removed them and test-fitted on the bench. I carefully installed the brake pads and 100% insured that they were seated against the caliper and piston. I also insured that the piston was in its most retracted position. The parking brake cables were, of course, not even attached on the bench but the parking brake levers were against the stops.

              Result? Clearance between the pads was 0.430". Rotors are 0.494" thick.DSCN2627.jpgDSCN2628.jpg
              In Appreciation of John Hinckley

              Comment

              • Edward J.
                Extremely Frequent Poster
                • September 15, 2008
                • 6942

                #8
                Re: Commercially Rebuilt Parts

                Originally posted by Joe Lucia (12484)
                Edward-------

                The rears of the OEM brake pads are shown below. The outer pad is the first picture. The two clips snap into orifices on the outer body of the caliper and the rear of the pad seats against the caliper body. The second picture shows the inner pad. The 2 small "posts" on the rear fit into cutouts on the piston. With the "posts" in the cutouts, the rear of the pad seats against the piston.

                After having problems installing the calipers on the car, I removed them and test-fitted on the bench. I carefully installed the brake pads and 100% insured that they were seated against the caliper and piston. I also insured that the piston was in its most retracted position. The parking brake cables were, of course, not even attached on the bench but the parking brake levers were against the stops.

                Result? Clearance between the pads was 0.430". Rotors are 0.494" thick.[ATTACH=CONFIG]36884[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]36885[/ATTACH]
                Joe, my next question would be is if you can take one of your old calipers and retract the piston(if possible) as far as you can and take a measurement of the openings of the new and old calipers. Also are the reman. caliper piston appear to be flush with castings, Sometimes those arms are installed incorrectly if the are sloted at 180 degree a part. one half rotation out will also cause the pistons to be not fully seated.
                Last edited by Edward J.; January 22, 2012, 12:36 PM.
                New England chapter member, 63 Convert. 327/340- Chapter/Regional/national Top Flight, 72 coupe- chapter and regional Top Flight.

                Comment

                • Joe L.
                  Beyond Control Poster
                  • February 1, 1988
                  • 43219

                  #9
                  Re: Commercially Rebuilt Parts

                  Originally posted by Edward Johnson (49497)
                  Joe, my next question would be is if you can take one of your old calipers and retrack the piston(if possible) as far as you can and take a measurement of the openings of the new and old calipers.
                  Edward------

                  Unfortunately, I am unable to retract the pistons in the old calipers. In fact, that's one of the reasons I decided I needed to overhaul or replace them. I've since opened up one of the calipers for overhaul and found some corrosion in the bore. However, I was able to clean it up with a small brass wire wheel and the bore looks to be fine. The piston and the actuator look to be perfect and required very little cleaning to appear like new. After I get this assembled and test fit the pads, I'll be able to determine the pad clearance. Apparently, I need a special tool to install the "piston locator" on the piston so I'll need to await receipt of one.

                  Later C4 Corvettes have rear brakes ROUGHLY similar to the ones on this Cadillac so some of what's learned here may be "transferable" to those cars. The general knowledge regarding commercially rebuilt parts and the foibles therewith should be transferable to ALL Corvettes.
                  In Appreciation of John Hinckley

                  Comment

                  • Joe L.
                    Beyond Control Poster
                    • February 1, 1988
                    • 43219

                    #10
                    Re: Commercially Rebuilt Parts

                    Originally posted by Ken Anderson (10232)
                    Joe,
                    We have found that GM uses different thickness rotors on some vehicles. Nowadays, suppliers sell "loaded" calipers to remedy the problem. For example, there are 26 brake caliper part #'s for my 2003 pickup truck & 38 shock part #'s. Delco uses Raybestos as their current supplier.
                    Ken------


                    I would have used the loaded calipers except I wanted to use OEM pads and the loaded rebuilt calipers usually have aftermarket-type pads installed. In retrospect, if I had known the problems I was going to have and if the loaded calipers would have solved the problem and made this whole operation a simple "bolt on", I would have foregone the OEM pads. After all, this is just a secondary driver car for me. I should have gotten rid of it years ago but my late father bought it new and I have hard time parting with it. But, I won't have it as just a derelict sitting around. I've already spent a LOT more money on this car than it's worth.

                    As far as rotor thickness goes, as far as I can determine, all of the rather limited applications that used these rear calipers also used the same rotors. These applications were limited to GM "E", "K", and "V" bodied cars of the 86-91 era.
                    In Appreciation of John Hinckley

                    Comment

                    • Bill S.
                      Very Frequent User
                      • April 30, 2002
                      • 154

                      #11
                      Re: Commercially Rebuilt Parts

                      Understanding the industry helps one to understand the parts received.

                      When the industry says Rebuilt, it means only those wear items that are beyond spec are replaced.

                      When the industry says Remanufactured, it means all wear items are replaced.

                      One of the guiding lights in determining the quality of the piece you bought, is the quality of the core received. Ask yourself, how many times has this core been remanned or rebuilt? Who knows but a core cannot be remanned forever before it is just plain wore out. A lot of times the difference between the cheap, silver, and gold level parts has more to do with the quality of the core rather then the care or quality of the parts that went into it.

                      Most people figure that the reman/rebuilder treats a core like you do in the shop. Each core is disassembled, inspected, cleaned, parts replaced, boxed, and shipped. Wrong. All of the like cores are brought in and disassembled, the like parts are placed into bins for inspection, cleaned, and the at the time of reassembly parts are selected from the bin at random. That piece in the box contains parts from numerous cores selected at random. The reman/rebuilder makes no attempt to keep the original core together during the process.

                      You would figure the key to a reman/rebuild success would be testing. Wrong again most reman outfits test 10% of their output to ensure quality. The only one that tests 100% of its units before shipping is Cardone.

                      My advice, if you have the original part, send it out to be remanned by a reputable guy in the hobby. You'll be much better off than buying that bargain part off of Rock Auto or at Advance.
                      Bill Strobel
                      Owner Independent Towing
                      Fayetteville, NC
                      1979 Corvette White/Red L-82 4 spd
                      Only 4,200 miles
                      Do It Right or Don't Do It At All

                      Comment

                      • Edward J.
                        Extremely Frequent Poster
                        • September 15, 2008
                        • 6942

                        #12
                        Re: Commercially Rebuilt Parts

                        Originally posted by Joe Lucia (12484)
                        Edward------

                        Unfortunately, I am unable to retract the pistons in the old calipers. In fact, that's one of the reasons I decided I needed to overhaul or replace them. I've since opened up one of the calipers for overhaul and found some corrosion in the bore. However, I was able to clean it up with a small brass wire wheel and the bore looks to be fine. The piston and the actuator look to be perfect and required very little cleaning to appear like new. After I get this assembled and test fit the pads, I'll be able to determine the pad clearance. Apparently, I need a special tool to install the "piston locator" on the piston so I'll need to await receipt of one.

                        Later C4 Corvettes have rear brakes ROUGHLY similar to the ones on this Cadillac so some of what's learned here may be "transferable" to those cars. The general knowledge regarding commercially rebuilt parts and the foibles therewith should be transferable to ALL Corvettes.
                        Yes you will need a special tool to spin the pistons back into caliper, But since your rebuilding the old ones you won't need the tool because you can spin the the e/brake worm all the way in and then install the piston. then re-attach arms after. You may want to use some sort of lube on the worm,sometimes the reman caliper kits come with small capsule to use.
                        New England chapter member, 63 Convert. 327/340- Chapter/Regional/national Top Flight, 72 coupe- chapter and regional Top Flight.

                        Comment

                        • Paul J.
                          Expired
                          • September 9, 2008
                          • 2091

                          #13
                          Re: Commercially Rebuilt Parts

                          In 1973 I started doing small repairs at my house. Mostly just helping friends and neighbors, and only replacing parts like starters, water pumps, but mostly brake components. This little part time business grew and in the last 38 years I have purchased thousands of aftermarket parts, most of them remanufactured. I've watched the sources move from the U.S. to Mexico, then Brazil, and now China. I've never had problems with the quality of the rebuilds. You have to realize that these are cheap parts, but they are fully functional. I will admit that I had to replace a water pump twice for someone because the rebuild failed, but it had been replaced by someone working for me so I'm not sure that we did'nt have something to do with the failure. Today I buy my parts from any of four online parts houses, or from Car Quest, Auto Zone, Pep Boys, or Advance. I will also occaisionally use NAPA, but they won't give me a sufficient discount.

                          The only problem that I have had from time to time is that the parts store cross references can be incorrect. The part is stated to fit more applications than it does. That's why I don't have parts delivered any more and why I always try to take the core with me, unless I know the part is pretty universal.

                          There is a trend now for the parts houses to sell new replacement parts of a totally different design. I've found this at some of the online parts houses and at Auto Zone. Be careful about these parts as there can be fitment issues.

                          I don't hesitate to use aftermarket parts, especially now days where I can do my own cross references on-line on the computer, complete with pictures.

                          Comment

                          • Joe L.
                            Beyond Control Poster
                            • February 1, 1988
                            • 43219

                            #14
                            Re: Commercially Rebuilt Parts

                            Originally posted by Bill Strobel (37873)
                            Understanding the industry helps one to understand the parts received.

                            When the industry says Rebuilt, it means only those wear items that are beyond spec are replaced.

                            When the industry says Remanufactured, it means all wear items are replaced.

                            One of the guiding lights in determining the quality of the piece you bought, is the quality of the core received. Ask yourself, how many times has this core been remanned or rebuilt? Who knows but a core cannot be remanned forever before it is just plain wore out. A lot of times the difference between the cheap, silver, and gold level parts has more to do with the quality of the core rather then the care or quality of the parts that went into it.

                            Most people figure that the reman/rebuilder treats a core like you do in the shop. Each core is disassembled, inspected, cleaned, parts replaced, boxed, and shipped. Wrong. All of the like cores are brought in and disassembled, the like parts are placed into bins for inspection, cleaned, and the at the time of reassembly parts are selected from the bin at random. That piece in the box contains parts from numerous cores selected at random. The reman/rebuilder makes no attempt to keep the original core together during the process.

                            You would figure the key to a reman/rebuild success would be testing. Wrong again most reman outfits test 10% of their output to ensure quality. The only one that tests 100% of its units before shipping is Cardone.

                            My advice, if you have the original part, send it out to be remanned by a reputable guy in the hobby. You'll be much better off than buying that bargain part off of Rock Auto or at Advance.
                            Bill----


                            These calipers have the "remanufactured" designation. In fact, that may be the genesis of my problems. I expect that some sort of aftermarket-type internal parts were used (e.g. piston and actuator). These may be "off-spec" and causing the problems I am having. For example, if the pistons were only 0.060" longer than spec that would cause exactly the problem I'm having.
                            In Appreciation of John Hinckley

                            Comment

                            • Joe L.
                              Beyond Control Poster
                              • February 1, 1988
                              • 43219

                              #15
                              Re: Commercially Rebuilt Parts

                              All------


                              An update on the brake caliper situation on the old Cadillac: given that I could not get the pistons retracted enough in the rebuilt calipers, I decided that I'd rebuild my original calipers. It was a giant hassle because I had to obtain some special Kent-Moore tools, buy the kits and most of the other hardware. It all ended up costing more than the rebuilt calipers plus I had to do the caliper clean-up and rebuilding. However, when I was done, lo-and-behold, the calipers worked just perfectly; no problems, at all.

                              So, I don't know what the commercial rebuilders did (or, didn't do) to make their calipers unusable for me and causing me so much trouble and wasted effort but it was something.

                              Once again: BEWARE OF COMMERCIALLY REBUILT PARTS. I'm not talking about CUSTOM rebuilding services of sources like John Pirkle or other Corvette SPECIALTY rebuilders. I'm talking about COMMERCIALLY REBUILT parts from auto parts stores, major name-branded, or not.
                              In Appreciation of John Hinckley

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              Searching...Please wait.
                              An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because you have logged in since the previous page was loaded.

                              Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                              An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because the token has expired.

                              Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                              An internal error has occurred and the module cannot be displayed.
                              There are no results that meet this criteria.
                              Search Result for "|||"