1968 VIN change or correction

[Ronald R.]

Years ago I purchased a 68 cvt that was billed NOM, I checked all the numbers and it looked to be correct. There was a odd feature on the pad but for the price $12,000.00 I bought the car. I have started a frame off restoration on the car and was puzzled by what I found. The frame numbers were corrected ( one digit ) in both spots as was the tranny. I then took a close look at the pad at bingo it to made sense. The vin tag is cvt#1849, both spots on the fram had an "X" over an 8 and a 9 stamped above it. The tranny was ground off and stamped correctly, the pad had the TO numbers left alone and the VIN portion corrected with the 8 still visable from the first stamp. This looks to be a factory job as this one has never been apart. Great care was taken to preserveve the TO numbers but the VIN was filed or somehow dressed for the correction.

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[Ronald R.]

Re: 1968 VIN change or correction

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[Ronald R.]

Re: 1968 VIN change or correction

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[Joe L.]

Re: 1968 VIN change or correction

Ronald------


This is not that uncommon and the methods used for correction (i.e. "X'ing out" and grinding out) are exactly the methods commonly used.

What probably happened here was the line person forgot to change the last character in the gang stamps between cars and, thus, a correction was necessary.

St. Louis rarely scrapped a car because someone got the stampings wrong.

[Ronald R.]

Re: 1968 VIN change or correction

Wonder what the NCRS boys would say about this???
thanks RDR

[Paul O.]

Re: 1968 VIN change or correction

Ronald

You realize that you are on the NCRS discussion board so we are all NCRS boys.

After looking a your photos for some time the X out on the frame as Joe stated is a methods used to fix errors. Your engine stamp pad the fonts of the letters and numbers look to be normal just can not see any broach marks in the photos that can be caused by the lighting or angle the photo was taken. The grind out of the VIN look to be old and typical from the others that I have viewed but photos some times do not tell the whole story they have to be looked at in person and with high resolution cameras to give you a better determination on the originality of the pad. I consider myself to be still a novices on engine pads because there are folks here that have viewed more of these irregularities then I have and hope one or more of them do chime in.

Paul 18046

[Terry M.]

Re: 1968 VIN change or correction

Wonder what the NCRS boys would say about this???
thanks RDR

I resemble that remark.

[Michael W.]

Re: 1968 VIN change or correction

Wonder what the NCRS boys would say about this???
thanks RDR

Them thar boys would probably say 'what a nice example of a factory grind out- just like we've seen and discussed XX times before'. I'd almost be curious to know what the boys on that other website think we would say. Have you asked?

[Joe L.]

Re: 1968 VIN change or correction

Ronald

You realize that you are on the NCRS discussion board so we are all NCRS boys.

After looking a your photos for some time the X out on the frame as Joe stated is a methods used to fix errors. Your engine stamp pad the fonts of the letters and numbers look to be normal just can not see any broach marks in the photos that can be caused by the lighting or angle the photo was taken. The grind out of the VIN look to be old and typical from the others that I have viewed but photos some times do not tell the whole story they have to be looked at in person and with high resolution cameras to give you a better determination on the originality of the pad. I consider myself to be still a novices on engine pads because there are folks here that have viewed more of these irregularities then I have and hope one or more of them do chime in.

Paul 18046

Paul------

The late George Barlos, long-time employee at St. Louis, once told me that the GM policy regarding stamping corrections was that the incorrect characters would be "X'd out" and the correct characters stamped above or below them. However, George went on to say that was only the "official policy". In practice, there were lots of air grinders in the assembly area and they were often used to grind out an incorrect stamping and correct characters stamped directly on the ground out area.

Many years ago at an NCRS National Convention in Bend, OR I saw a 1968 or 1969 L-88 being judged which had a ground out VIN derivative with a corrected stamping in the ground out area. The judges inflicted a "big hit" on the car which I believe knocked it out of Top Flight contention. The owner was furious. Personally, I believe the correction was original and as it left the factory. However, if such situations were not intensely scrutinized and with skepticism, especially in the case of a rare car like this, creating bogus cars would be a piece of cake. I mean, a crude grind-out and over-stamp is just not that hard to do.

As I recall, the car in question was owned by Joe Malicke of Country Corvettes in Nortonville, KS but I'm not 100% sure.

[Rich G.]

Re: 1968 VIN change or correction

What would they say, indeed. I have a 68 with a grind out on the VIN on the engine pad. What I was told at a chapter meet was that it could be factory, or it could be someone trying to make a fraudulent car knowing that was how they did it at the factory. Since I wasn't at the factory and I didn't own the car for the first 35 years of its life I cannot make any judgement one way or the other. But the Judges can and do. That's why they are called Judges.

Having said all that, my advice to you is enjoy your restoration and enjoy your car by driving it every time you can, but stay away from judging. It will only upset you.

Rich

[Michael W.]

Re: 1968 VIN change or correction

What would they say, indeed. I have a 68 with a grind out on the VIN on the engine pad. What I was told at a chapter meet was that it could be factory, or it could be someone trying to make a fraudulent car knowing that was how they did it at the factory. Since I wasn't at the factory and I didn't own the car for the first 35 years of its life I cannot make any judgement one way or the other. But the Judges can and do. That's why they are called Judges.

Having said all that, my advice to you is enjoy your restoration and enjoy your car by driving it every time you can, but stay away from judging. It will only upset you.

Rich

And having said that- all the judges do is decide if it's 'typical of factory production' or not. No decision is made whether it's real or not. BIG difference that often gets overlooked or ignored. That might be why some people get upset over judging activities.

[Richard E.]

Re: 1968 VIN change or correction

Looks like a factory mistake to me...I kinda doubt if someone was trying to duplicate a factory grind out they would pull
the body and x out a number on the frame...IMHO

[Rich G.]

Re: 1968 VIN change or correction

Good point.

Thanks

Rich

[Ronald R.]

Re: 1968 VIN change or correction

I was a little skeptical until I pulled the body off. When I saw the two frame fixes and the tranny grind I did a close inspection of the pad, the area that was repaired was ground or filed. The incorrect "8" was left visable and matched the two frame stencils. The rest of the pad look good i.e. broach marks and characters or correct. this one has never been apart until now.
thanks for the input RDR