How to dull jams

[Bill L.]

Re: How to dull jams

The only beef I have in the paint judging is the original materials are not available. Today's lacquer is but a shadow of what was available back in the day if even newer lacquer is available. It is NCRS's ball so we all understand it is their rules.

It is my opinion that given the fact that the government outlawed the original lacquer formula long ago, if your car is painted the correct color, that at least 1/2 the points should be afforded. Just because the jambs and other areas are not "unbuffed" or "dull" should not constitute a 100% deduct. There is a survivor class that has total originality as its sole focus.

If anyone can show where the original lacquer formulas can be readily purchased, in the original formula, with all that lead , then maybe the current standards make sense.

The original comfort weave seat material is no longer available and I do not recall reading a post where there is a 100% deduct for using what is currently available. Frankly the 20% over restored deduct seems fair for BC/CC too.

To me taking a 100% deduct for too much gloss is like taking a 100% interior deduct for using currently available comfortweave material. Granted you can make a decent attempt to make BC/CC look like lacquer but it is still BC/CC. NCRS already did away with the Paint scuff test to see if judges can get color on the rag to prove is not BC/CC and that was a good thing.

I love NCRS but this paint stuff drives me nuts.

Thanks for letting me vent a little


Bill

[Terry M.]

Re: How to dull jams

The only beef I have in the paint judging is the original materials are not available. Today's lacquer is but a shadow of what was available back in the day if even newer lacquer is available. It is NCRS's ball so we all understand it is their rules.

It is my opinion that given the fact that the government outlawed the original lacquer formula long ago, if your car is painted the correct color, that at least 1/2 the points should be afforded. Just because the jambs and other areas are not "unbuffed" or "dull" should not constitute a 100% deduct. There is a survivor class that has total originality as its sole focus.

If anyone can show where the original lacquer formulas can be readily purchased, in the original formula, with all that lead , then maybe the current standards make sense.

The original comfort weave seat material is no longer available and I do not recall reading a post where there is a 100% deduct for using what is currently available. Frankly the 20% over restored deduct seems fair for BC/CC too.

To me taking a 100% deduct for too much gloss is like taking a 100% interior deduct for using currently available comfortweave material. Granted you can make a decent attempt to make BC/CC look like lacquer but it is still BC/CC. NCRS already did away with the Paint scuff test to see if judges can get color on the rag to prove is not BC/CC and that was a good thing.

I love NCRS but this paint stuff drives me nuts.

Thanks for letting me vent a little


Bill

Bill The paint standards wouldn't drive you so nuts if you accurately understood them.

There is nothing in NCRS paint standards that says you have to use the original (or any other particular) material. The NCRS standards are ALL about appearance. The paint has to appear like the original. To take it to the extreme -- if you can achieve original appearance with Crayons you get all the points.

[Michael J.]

Re: How to dull jams

The only beef I have in the paint judging is the original materials are not available. Today's lacquer is but a shadow of what was available back in the day if even newer lacquer is available. It is NCRS's ball so we all understand it is their rules.

It is my opinion that given the fact that the government outlawed the original lacquer formula long ago, if your car is painted the correct color, that at least 1/2 the points should be afforded. Just because the jambs and other areas are not "unbuffed" or "dull" should not constitute a 100% deduct. There is a survivor class that has total originality as its sole focus.

If anyone can show where the original lacquer formulas can be readily purchased, in the original formula, with all that lead , then maybe the current standards make sense.

The original comfort weave seat material is no longer available and I do not recall reading a post where there is a 100% deduct for using what is currently available. Frankly the 20% over restored deduct seems fair for BC/CC too.

To me taking a 100% deduct for too much gloss is like taking a 100% interior deduct for using currently available comfortweave material. Granted you can make a decent attempt to make BC/CC look like lacquer but it is still BC/CC. NCRS already did away with the Paint scuff test to see if judges can get color on the rag to prove is not BC/CC and that was a good thing.

I love NCRS but this paint stuff drives me nuts.

Thanks for letting me vent a little


Bill

Yes, there are problems here, but nothing like the engine pad VooDoo, don't get me started on that....

[Bill L.]

Re: How to dull jams

You are always a voice of reason Terry. I understand the standard but still think the 20% over restore deduct makes more sense than a 100% deduct for paint that is too nice regardless of where it appears. The 100% deduct seems extreme when is is done in the original color.

I hear ya Michael.

I am going to drop the subject and renew my meds

Bill

[Louis T.]

NCRS Paint Flowchart.jpg

[Joseph K.]

Re: How to dull jams

Bill,

I agree with you and I also understand a deduct is necessary. But....., the 100% deduct is very heavy handed. We all do the best we can to meet the requirements but to ruin the resale of the car by dulling these areas just hurts. Not everyone appreciates dulling these areas.

Joe

[Gene M.]

Re: How to dull jams

........................

The repro tires where recently touched upon, If the tires are correct then its just a 3 or 4 point deduct for DOT stampings. Now you need post your repro tire type. Maybe one of the experienced judges Like Gene could touch upon.

Looking close at most repop tires there is more than just the DOT marking deviation. Additional text on the side wall and thread deviations are there. True one has to look close to note these differences but that is the difference from originals that justifies the deducts. Some even have diameter differences that are noticeable (fit real tight in spare tub).

[Bill L.]

Re: How to dull jams

HI Joseph,

It just seems like you should only get a 100% deduct if painted the wrong color. No one i saying there should be no deduct just a reasonable deduct.

Bill

[Terry M.]

Re: How to dull jams

HI Joseph,

It just seems like you should only get a 100% deduct if painted the wrong color. No one i saying there should be no deduct just a reasonable deduct.

Bill

Not to heap it on, but there is a line item for Color that is seperate from paint. The decision tree that Louis posted above is for Paint. Color is a seperate line item, and I will leave it to others to look up the point value for it, although I am sure it is the same across all the judging classes.

[Bill L.]

Re: How to dull jams

Not to heap it on, but there is a line item for Color that is seperate from paint. The decision tree that Louis posted above is for Paint. Color is a seperate line item, and I will leave it to others to look up the point value for it, although I am sure it is the same across all the judging classes.

HI Terry,

That is good to know. I downloaded the sheets and should have looked first.

I was experimenting with hair spray and it actually does look like unbuffed lacquer when it dries and it dries pretty hard too with orange peel. I have a little Classic White Lacquer from back when I was considering using lacquer. The hair spray does compare well.



Bill

[Ron G.]

Re: How to dull jams

For those that think door jams and hood ledges were buffed at the factory obviously have not had expeience with Bowtie and Survivor judging. My suggestion would be to spend more time looking at originals than restored cars.

[Joe R.]

Re: How to dull jams

First of all let me ask this question.

1. Was it the intention of GM to have dull door jams?

Hell no! If any of you people had ever painted lacquer you would understand! Only in a high humid condition does lacquer come out dull! OR it has been on the automobile for 40 years!

People, we are judging a Corvette based on showroom delivery when the owner is seeking a Top Flight Award! Based on that standard talking of hair spray, clear coat, steel wool etc. etc. is crazy!

Of course it is my belief that nobody should be allowed to judge a Corvette that has never actually restored one to Top Flight or Duntov standards.


JR

[Scott K.]

Re: How to dull jams

Bill The paint standards wouldn't drive you so nuts if you accurately understood them.

There is nothing in NCRS paint standards that says you have to use the original (or any other particular) material. The NCRS standards are ALL about appearance. The paint has to appear like the original. To take it to the extreme -- if you can achieve original appearance with Crayons you get all the points.

Yes, but the crayons must be in original wrapper with correct verticle tip slope and moisture flex content or they will deduct a point per pixel.