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C2 Underhood Paint Margin

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  • Roger P.
    Expired
    • February 25, 2009
    • 354

    C2 Underhood Paint Margin

    Hi Guys (& Girls),
    I am preparing to paint the underside of the hood on my '65 convertible during the holidays while I have some time off from work. I have read several threads from the archives about which polyurethane sealant to use to replace the dried out adhesive attaching the outer hood layer with the hood frame. That task appears straight forward using the DAP product. I have also read about the correct paint margin between the body color on the "lip" vs. the blackout under the hood. A few threads had photos posted of original and Duntov cars showing the "correct" paint margin. I even saw the photo from the assembly line where a "mask" was used to protect the hood body paint while a worker blacked out the bottom of the hood. However, the photos I have seen vary on where the body paint ends and the blackout begins. Based on the mask concept, I assume the body paint (red in my case) wraps the edge of the hood and continues onto the bottom of the outer lip, and then ends at the vertical plane of the hood frame. The vertical edge of the hood frame would therefore be black along with the entire bottom of the hood. Is that correct? The photos that I have seen vary even though all the cars were supposedly original and unmolested. My car is not being judged other than by me and other "entusiasts", but I would like to get it right. Currently, the vertical plane on my hood frame is red, but I don't believe it is correct. Replies from those that have the answer would be appreciated. Also, what is the preferred contact cement to use to install my new hood ledge weatherstrip? I hope to keep things neat & clean (no assembly line mess for me), so I don't care if it is yellow or black.

    Thank you,
    Roger (50141)
  • John H.
    Beyond Control Poster
    • December 1, 1997
    • 16513

    #2
    Re: C2 Underhood Paint Margin

    Originally posted by Roger Piper (50141)
    Based on the mask concept, I assume the body paint (red in my case) wraps the edge of the hood and continues onto the bottom of the outer lip, and then ends at the vertical plane of the hood frame. The vertical edge of the hood frame would therefore be black along with the entire bottom of the hood. Is that correct?
    Roger -

    Yes, that's correct.

    Comment

    • Roger P.
      Expired
      • February 25, 2009
      • 354

      #3
      Re: C2 Underhood Paint Margin

      Hi John,
      Thank you for your quick reply. My car is an A.O. Smith body, and I understand that they painted the underside of the hood before installing any of the hardware as black paint has been found behind the hinges and pins. With that in mind, was the hood on an A.O. Smith body also painted while installed on the car, or was it painted before installation? The obvious answer would be that it was painted before being installed on the car as compared to the St. Louis hoods. If that is the case, then perhaps they didn't use a mask on the A.O. Smith hoods and that may be the reason why some photos show body paint on the vertical plane of the hood frame adjacent to the outer lip while others show blackout. I would like to hear from members with original cars of both A.O. Smith bodies and St. Louis bodies to see if there is a consistent difference between the paint on the vertical surface of the hood frame. Have I uncovered something here?

      Thank you,
      Roger (50141)

      Comment

      • John H.
        Beyond Control Poster
        • December 1, 1997
        • 16513

        #4
        Re: C2 Underhood Paint Margin

        Originally posted by Roger Piper (50141)
        Hi John,
        Thank you for your quick reply. My car is an A.O. Smith body, and I understand that they painted the underside of the hood before installing any of the hardware as black paint has been found behind the hinges and pins. With that in mind, was the hood on an A.O. Smith body also painted while installed on the car, or was it painted before installation? The obvious answer would be that it was painted before being installed on the car as compared to the St. Louis hoods. If that is the case, then perhaps they didn't use a mask on the A.O. Smith hoods and that may be the reason why some photos show body paint on the vertical plane of the hood frame adjacent to the outer lip while others show blackout. I would like to hear from members with original cars of both A.O. Smith bodies and St. Louis bodies to see if there is a consistent difference between the paint on the vertical surface of the hood frame. Have I uncovered something here?

        Thank you,
        Roger (50141)
        Roger -

        The hood was painted after installation on the body at both plants - the process was the same. The only difference was that A.O. Smith installed the rear hood striker pins (on the hood) and the latches and cross-cable (on the firewall) after blackout.

        Comment

        • Roger P.
          Expired
          • February 25, 2009
          • 354

          #5
          Re: C2 Underhood Paint Margin

          John,
          You were there, so you know how it was done. However, I remember reading in one of the threads that black paint was found under the hood hinges on an original A.O. Smith car. What would explain that? What explains the vertical plane paint difference in the photos of "original" cars? Just curious.

          Roger (50141)

          Comment

          • Doug L.
            Expired
            • March 14, 2010
            • 442

            #6
            Re: C2 Underhood Paint Margin

            Hi Roger,
            Mine recently came back from the paint shop. I took photos of the original paint lines on the hood and had the painter duplicate them. I'll take some photos tomorrow and send them to you by e-mail. I used 3M weatherstrip adhesive to attach the rubber seal to the rear edge of the hood. I put it on with the hood off the car and upside down. I ran a bead onto the fiberglass then brushed it. The adhesive is yellowish and visible which is how I understand it appeared from the General.

            Hope you are doing well.
            Doug

            Comment

            • Roger P.
              Expired
              • February 25, 2009
              • 354

              #7
              Re: C2 Underhood Paint Margin

              Hi Doug,
              Good to hear from you. My family and I are doing great and ready for some holiday R & R time! I appreciate you sending or posting the photos as I am interested in determining why there is a difference in the paint margin. Perhaps some cars aren't 100% original? If John says the vertical plane should be black, then I certainly believe him... but I still want to know why the posted photos vary. I will pick up some 3M weatherstrip adhesive and a brush so I'm ready for the finishing touch on my holiday project. Looking forward to seeing your car during the winter -- sounds like you're getting close!

              Best regards,
              Roger (50141)

              Comment

              • Wayne W.
                Extremely Frequent Poster
                • April 30, 1982
                • 3605

                #8
                Re: C2 Underhood Paint Margin



                In the first picture you see the mask parting line and the hand hold to remove it from the vehicle after blackout. In the next picture you see the splay out at the front of the hood near the hinges where the mask didnt go all the way forward. Since the mask was loose fitting it did not have a sharp tape edge. the line was fuzzy. There was no black out, other than overspray, beyond the front hood reinforcement because the radiator support blocked the spray.

                Last edited by Wayne W.; December 6, 2011, 01:11 AM.

                Comment

                • Roger P.
                  Expired
                  • February 25, 2009
                  • 354

                  #9
                  Re: C2 Underhood Paint Margin

                  Wayne,
                  Thank you for your reply. I saw your photos before in another thread, but I see what appears to be the discrepancy that I mentioned before. In the first photo, I see black on the vertical plane of the hood reinforcement frame. However, in the second photo, I clearly see red paint on the bottom edge of the hood reinforcement frame which I assume runs up the vertical plane until it meets the horizontal lip. In other photos, the angle is more from the side and the body color is clearly on the vertical surface. Unless someone tells me otherwise, I can only assume that body color on the vertical surface is not correct and what was considered "original" was actually repainted at some point. There is definitely a contradiction here without explanation.

                  Roger (50141)

                  Comment

                  • Wayne W.
                    Extremely Frequent Poster
                    • April 30, 1982
                    • 3605

                    #10
                    Re: C2 Underhood Paint Margin

                    Originally posted by Roger Piper (50141)
                    Wayne,
                    Thank you for your reply. I saw your photos before in another thread, but I see what appears to be the discrepancy that I mentioned before. In the first photo, I see black on the vertical plane of the hood reinforcement frame. However, in the second photo, I clearly see red paint on the bottom edge of the hood reinforcement frame which I assume runs up the vertical plane until it meets the horizontal lip. In other photos, the angle is more from the side and the body color is clearly on the vertical surface. Unless someone tells me otherwise, I can only assume that body color on the vertical surface is not correct and what was considered "original" was actually repainted at some point. There is definitely a contradiction here without explanation.

                    Roger (50141)
                    You are seeing reflection in the bright sun. Sorry I didnt get a better view.

                    Comment

                    • John H.
                      Beyond Control Poster
                      • December 1, 1997
                      • 16513

                      #11
                      Re: C2 Underhood Paint Margin

                      Originally posted by Roger Piper (50141)
                      John,
                      You were there, so you know how it was done. However, I remember reading in one of the threads that black paint was found under the hood hinges on an original A.O. Smith car. What would explain that? What explains the vertical plane paint difference in the photos of "original" cars? Just curious.

                      Roger (50141)
                      Roger -

                      That's not the way the car was built. Are you sure it didn't mean black paint was found under the hood latches? That would be correct on an A.O. Smith body (and not correct on a St. Louis body).

                      Comment

                      • Doug L.
                        Expired
                        • March 14, 2010
                        • 442

                        #12
                        Re: C2 Underhood Paint Margin

                        Here are 2 photos I sent to Roger of my hood during paint stripping. There clearly was no blackout under the hinges. The rivets are paint-free as was the grey fiberglass. This is what I expected to see since it is my understanding that the hood was attached to the body by the hinges when the blackout was applied.

                        What confuses me is that the hood catches did not have blackout under them. If the catches are supposed to be a natural finish (according to the JG), they must have been installed after blackout. Even if the car had been re-painted before I bought it (what I stripped was lacquer and seemed to be original) this doesn't make sense. There was no paint on the catches. If they had been removed for a re-spray or even a touchup there would be black paint under them. If they had been left on during a re-spray they would have had black paint on them.
                        Doug
                        Attached Files

                        Comment

                        • Wayne W.
                          Extremely Frequent Poster
                          • April 30, 1982
                          • 3605

                          #13
                          Re: C2 Underhood Paint Margin

                          Originally posted by Doug Loeffler (51544)
                          Here are 2 photos I sent to Roger of my hood during paint stripping. There clearly was no blackout under the hinges. The rivets are paint-free as was the grey fiberglass. This is what I expected to see since it is my understanding that the hood was attached to the body by the hinges when the blackout was applied.

                          What confuses me is that the hood catches did not have blackout under them. If the catches are supposed to be a natural finish (according to the JG), they must have been installed after blackout. Even if the car had been re-painted before I bought it (what I stripped was lacquer and seemed to be original) this doesn't make sense. There was no paint on the catches. If they had been removed for a re-spray or even a touchup there would be black paint under them. If they had been left on during a re-spray they would have had black paint on them.
                          Doug
                          If it is AOS there should be some black under the latches. If it is St. Louis it would not.

                          Comment

                          • Gary B.
                            Extremely Frequent Poster
                            • February 1, 1997
                            • 7016

                            #14
                            Re: C2 Underhood Paint Margin

                            Originally posted by Doug Loeffler (51544)
                            Here are 2 photos I sent to Roger of my hood during paint stripping. There clearly was no blackout under the hinges. The rivets are paint-free as was the grey fiberglass. This is what I expected to see since it is my understanding that the hood was attached to the body by the hinges when the blackout was applied.

                            What confuses me is that the hood catches did not have blackout under them. If the catches are supposed to be a natural finish (according to the JG), they must have been installed after blackout. Even if the car had been re-painted before I bought it (what I stripped was lacquer and seemed to be original) this doesn't make sense. There was no paint on the catches. If they had been removed for a re-spray or even a touchup there would be black paint under them. If they had been left on during a re-spray they would have had black paint on them.
                            Doug
                            Doug,

                            And to be clear, your car has a St. Louis body?

                            Gary

                            Comment

                            • Loren L.
                              Extremely Frequent Poster
                              • April 30, 1976
                              • 4104

                              #15
                              Re: C2 Underhood Paint Margin

                              Could I interject a note of caution here? You are comparing two different body plants and how bodies were painted as though Feb '64 was the same as Aug '67 at another plant. Your examples need to specify what VIN and what body plant you are showing in order to bring any clarity to what you are trying to differentiate.

                              Comment

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