Normal? 63-7 LH door, when body centerline matched up, top of door is BELOW rear body

[Scott S.]

The driver's side door does not line up with the rear body (sets too low) when the body centerline of the door and rear body are aligned (photo #2). I have seen this same situation on other midyears, but not consistently. When we stripped the paint, the area in question had been "built up" with filler in order to "match" the rear of the body. When the filler was removed, there was NO damage underneath, it was just to make the door "look" right. It's possible that many other driver side doors have been modified in the same way over the years for a better fit, which would explain the inconsistency from car to car.

The passenger door (no filler) matches the body perfectly, the problem is only with the LH door.

1st photo shows the misalignment at the top, the other photos show that the door is otherwise correctly aligned.

Is this "step-down" from the rear body to the top-rear of the LH door "typical factory production", the result of a problem with the original manufacturing process? What did the factory do in this situation?

[Michael G.]

Re: Normal? 63-7 LH door, when body centerline matched up, top of door is BELOW rear

Scott,

It's not uncommon to see a situation like this, I've seen it before, specfically body panel alignment. As we know not typical but not out of the norm either. Let me ask you this.
*How does the style look where the door meets the front fender at the style line?
*If you raised the door up slightly, do you loose the style line where the door meets the roof line (door higher than the roof line)?

[Scott S.]

Re: Normal? 63-7 LH door, when body centerline matched up, top of door is BELOW rear

Scott,

It's not uncommon to see a situation like this, I've seen it before, specfically body panel alignment. As we know not typical but not out of the norm either. Let me ask you this.
*How does the style look where the door meets the front fender at the style line?
*If you raised the door up slightly, do you loose the style line where the door meets the roof line (door higher than the roof line)?

Mike,

The front clip has been removed, but the doors were aligned when the nose was still on the car. The fit was perfect at the roof, and the style line of the door matched up with the style line of the front and the rear body. It's just at the top-rear of the door (above the exterior door handle) where there's a mismatch.

What I don't understand is how it could be different from car to car. There may be minor differences between St. Louis and AO Smith body molds, but all of the St. Louis bodies should be the same as each other, and all of the AO Smith bodies should be consistent from one to another (this is a St. Louis body). The distance from the centerline or style-line on the door up to the "peak" above the outer door handle MUST be the same for all LH doors. If we moved the door upward to correct the "step-down" at the rear door to rear body peak line, it couldn't possibly match the rear body style line (and it would be too high at the roof-line).

It's as if the door shrunk, or the rear body expanded, between the center style line and the upper peak-line.

[Wayne W.]

Re: Normal? 63-7 LH door, when body centerline matched up, top of door is BELOW rear

That is a common problem especially with the LH door on convertibles. I havent noticed it too much on coupes, but I wouldnt be surprised to see it there also. The factory body build was a rather haphazard process. It is not uncommon to see these things.

[Scott S.]

Re: Normal? 63-7 LH door, when body centerline matched up, top of door is BELOW rear

That is a common problem especially with the LH door on convertibles. I havent noticed it too much on coupes, but I wouldnt be surprised to see it there also. The factory body build was a rather haphazard process. It is not uncommon to see these things.

Wayne,

I found a picture of the survivor '65 coupe that was used for the afternoon session of the Judging Seminar at McDorman's Chevrolet last year. The bottom right hand corner of the picture where the door meets the rear body looks about the same as mine.

[Stuart F.]

Re: Normal? 63-7 LH door, when body centerline matched up, top of door is BELOW rear

This is interesting as my 63 has been like this for some time, but I don't recall that it was since new. I assumed it might be a sign that the frame kick up area was weakening, perhaps even rusted out. I had it checked by a supposed expert and they said it was ok, but I am still sceptical. Still, the door fits the opening well and the latch works fine. The front line is ok too.

Stu Fox

[Domenic T.]

Re: Normal? 63-7 LH door, when body centerline matched up, top of door is BELOW rear

Scott,

I see this on a lot of vettes and it is a eye sore.

I matched my lines on my 67 and will have to do so on my 63 when I restore it.

Your door line below the door handle looks good so you will have to get creative and build it up again.

That is part of the expence of a good paint job and many don't relize that it needs to be done.

I think it makes the car look like it was pieced together badly if it is not corrected.

I would think there was a limit at the factory when they were built.

DOM

[Wayne W.]

Re: Normal? 63-7 LH door, when body centerline matched up, top of door is BELOW rear

Scott,


I would think there was a limit at the factory when they were built.

DOM

There was a specification, BUT.

[Joe M.]

Re: Normal? 63-7 LH door, when body centerline matched up, top of door is BELOW rear

There is magic in fiberglass that allows everything to line up perfectly with a little or a lot of foresight and work.

A little nudge of body mount shims can make a difference.....sometimes.

Convertible body quite flexible. Check rivets that hold inner metal frame to door.

Mistake in panel alignment can result in downstream error. Vette production was primative and wide variation in fit would be expected.

[Timothy B.]

Re: Normal? 63-7 LH door, when body centerline matched up, top of door is BELOW rear

If door fits with a consistant gap at the A pillar the repair shown in the pics should not be difficult. The BODY edge looks pretty square so someone has probably been there before. A little sanding there and a little filler on top of the door and everything is good..

IMO, if the horizontal body line is good and the A pillar gap is even, shim changes are not necessary.

[Paul J.]

Re: Normal? 63-7 LH door, when body centerline matched up, top of door is BELOW rear

Scott, even if you are doing an NCRS restoration, I would fix this, or at least make it a little better. Tim's suggestion is the way to go. You can only align a panel so far with shims, and you still won't get it perfect if the panel simply doesn't fit. Building, sanding, and bending edges is common practice.

Paul

[Scott S.]

Re: Normal? 63-7 LH door, when body centerline matched up, top of door is BELOW rear

This is interesting as my 63 has been like this for some time, but I don't recall that it was since new. I assumed it might be a sign that the frame kick up area was weakening, perhaps even rusted out. I had it checked by a supposed expert and they said it was ok, but I am still sceptical. Still, the door fits the opening well and the latch works fine. The front line is ok too.

Stu Fox

Hi Stu,

That's part of what I don't understand. If you measure the distance between the center-line (style line) and the highest point at the rear of the door (above the exterior door handle where it "meets" the peak line from the rear body), the measurement should be exactly the same for every door made from 1963-1967.

Same for the rear body. If you measure the distance between the center-line/style line on the rear body (just rear of the door) up to the rear body "peak line" where this 'step-down' problem occurs, that distance should also be identical on every body made. It might be off a tiny amount, but not like mine or the picture of the red '65 I posted above.

The upper line does come down at a slight angle from the rear body to the door in the area above the door handle, so the rear body "peak" line should be just slighly higher than where it meets the door "peak" line above the door handle, to maintain the overall body line, but it should be a very small difference, in order to appear seamless if it weren't for the door gap interrupting the "line".

It seems that either all LH doors should exhibit this problem, or none of them should. The distance between the center-line and the peak line cannot change (for the door or the rear body), even if the hinges sag or the frame sags.

[Scott S.]

Re: Normal? 63-7 LH door, when body centerline matched up, top of door is BELOW rear

Scott, even if you are doing an NCRS restoration, I would fix this, or at least make it a little better. Tim's suggestion is the way to go. You can only align a panel so far with shims, and you still won't get it perfect if the panel simply doesn't fit. Building, sanding, and bending edges is common practice.

Paul

Dom, Wayne, Joe, Tim and Paul (everyone),

Thank you for the replies. I am trying to do a factory correct restoration, and you are all getting at what I'm trying to figure out: do I "fix it", or leave it alone?

The area of the door in question can be "built up" again for a much better match, I don't think that will be a problem. We removed the old "filler" in that area to check for damage, but there was none. We can redo it.

I just didn't want to "over restore" something. If they were ALL like this, and that's just how they were, then I would leave it. If they weren't ALL like this, it would sure "look" better if it was "helped" a little so that it matches up better. It's not something that can be easily undone once the body is painted, so I wanted to get thoughts and opinions about this before going forward.

[John H.]

Re: Normal? 63-7 LH door, when body centerline matched up, top of door is BELOW rear

Scott -

Each plant assembled the rear clip in their bonding fixture with panels from the same supplier, assembled the front clip in their bonding fixture with panels from the same supplier, and built the doors from scratch and bonded them together in their own bonding fixtures with steel and fiberglass panels from the same supplier. The rear clip was bonded to the underbody first, then the front clip, and the doors were installed last. There were lots of opportunities for variation in the process, from the subassemblies to bonding on the main line, and neither the panels nor the tooling was as precise or sophisticated as what we see today on steel cars. Nature of the beast.

[John H.]

Re: Normal? 63-7 LH door, when body centerline matched up, top of door is BELOW rear

My '63 convertible has the same issue. The center line is spot on but the top of the door does not match up with the top - front of the rear fender. Mid May build. The door closes beautifully. If anything was out of alignment then the center line would be off when the top would be in proper position, would it not?