69 L36 Exhaust

[Floyd B.]

Here is a picture of the 427 exhaust kit sold by a well known repro vendor. My reading of the 68/69 TIM&JG indicates the exhaust extension pipe should be welded to the muffler inlet. This kit appears to clamp the pipe to the muffler inlet. This would be an incorrect configuration and warrant a deduction - correct?

Do you see anything else that would be incorrect?

Thanx,

-Floyd-

[Dick W.]

Re: 69 L36 Exhaust

Floyd, I believe they are designed to weld the pipe to the muffler, not clamp. I know of a couple of vendors that sell their kits this way. Makes shipping a little easier and final fitting also more precise.

[Edward J.]

Re: 69 L36 Exhaust

Floyd,I brought my 72 exhaust system from Gardner exhaust and there truly is nothing that will duplicate the factory system, I did like the fitment of the system with the system I was able to position it correctly and then had it welded. A few problems will arise at judging with the system as the judges do know there problems, if the muffler seams are not facing outboard thats one, and the plating is another, clamps if not appearing like the factory. all said there maybe a few points that will be deducted.

There will be many posts on the replacement exhaust systems of today, take it for what its worth, As you can truly only do so much with the systems.

[Paul O.]

Re: 69 L36 Exhaust

Floyd

All service systems made today have about the same problems compared to the originals some more some less. We judges should follow the standard Configuration, Date, Installation, Complete and Finish guide lines.

1. Pipes are Aluminized that is finish 20% deduct also causes 20% for date.

1A. Pipes front with the correct wrinkles in the bends no deduct for Configuration. But the rear pipes are not flattened correctly and then there are 2 welds at the mufflers so 20% Config 20% Date and 20% finish or 60%.

2. Mufflers The Configuration of the end caps rolled clamping area is flattened should be rounded, main body seams both must face inboard toward the spare tire tub the finish is not typical. Again Config, Date and Finish 60%

3. Clamps and Hangers the Config ,Date and Finish generally do not appear as originals and now some of the hangers have a Config issue 20% then that would cause a date problem 20%. So the clamps 60% deduct the hanger 0 to 60% and do not forget the mounting hardware bolts are a blackened finish proper length, head markings, washer stack and installed correctly.

4. Tips 50% standard deduct for Stainless Steel plus any other issues typically 70 to 90% deduct. Then for Chrome plated Steel tips Config, Date and Finish have to be correct if not 40% to 60% deductions.


Hope this gives you an idea of the possible deduction that can and should occur for the deviations from original exhaust systems. If we do not follow the guide lines then it would not mater if you have an original system for judging or a Reproduction.

Paul 18046

[Patrick H.]

Re: 69 L36 Exhaust

Paul and I disagree on the 20% for date deduction, and have stated so here in the past. So, your deductions may vary between judges.

[Terry M.]

Re: 69 L36 Exhaust

Paul and I disagree on the 20% for date deduction, and have stated so here in the past. So, your deductions may vary between judges.

Patrick do you have the new blue Standard Deduction sheet that was passed out at Novi?

If you do, that will settle the disagreement you and Paul are having.

[Paul O.]

Re: 69 L36 Exhaust

Terry

I do not think it is a disagreement between Patrick and myself but a deference of opinion. On the blue sheet you are talking about the 25% deduction for parts that were not Aluminized originally. With that I also see a date issue and Patrick does not hence the difference between myself and Patrick.

Paul 18046

[Mark D.]

Re: 69 L36 Exhaust

Paul,

Just remember (subliminal message...72 paint chips) one thing, 'Ballard'

Mark

[Paul O.]

Re: 69 L36 Exhaust

Mark send me your mailing address will ship have it out and ready "Ballard"


Paul

[Patrick H.]

Re: 69 L36 Exhaust

Terry

I do not think it is a disagreement between Patrick and myself but a deference of opinion. On the blue sheet you are talking about the 25% deduction for parts that were not Aluminized originally. With that I also see a date issue and Patrick does not hence the difference between myself and Patrick.

Paul 18046

Yup.

I say that if they could have made the system in 70-72 as it appears on the car (and I don't know if they were or were not) then no deduct. I consider it a finish issue only if they're aluminized. Paul's opinion is that because he knows the aluminized system wasn't made in 70-72 that it gets a deduction for date.

50 years from now maybe we'll agree.

[Paul O.]

Re: 69 L36 Exhaust

Patrick

If I am real lucky you only have 30 years plus or minus a few for us to agree.

Paul 18046

[Floyd B.]

Re: 69 L36 Exhaust

Paul's opinion is that because he knows the aluminized system wasn't made in 70-72 that it gets a deduction for date.

Question for Paul. BTW, I'm not challenging anyones methods, I'm a 30 point judge that is 100% in learn mode, so my question really is a question.

Do you apply this acid test only to exhaust systems or to every part on the car? I was under the impression that date deductions were only appropriate for date coded parts. In other words should I be deducting the 20% for date on every part that I know is a reproduction no matter how close to original it appears?

Thanx,

-Floyd-

[Paul O.]

Re: 69 L36 Exhaust

Floyd

No if the service part looks and the finish is what would have been on an original part there should be no deductions. But as Patrick stated it is my thought that as with the exhaust pipes Aluminized coating was not used back then so that tells me the date is later. Could someone have original pipes Aluminized yes they could but then there is a finish problem.

The front pipes of a certain manufacture I give config credit the shape of the wrinkle it is very close to the originals so I deduct for the date and finish.

The rear pipes the wrinkles are the same as the front but the pipe is not flatted correctly and the 2nd weld at the muffler so that is why they receive a deduction for config, date and finish.

I look at replacement (reproduction parts) in this way if I would have to hold the original next to the replacement to see the difference then the replacement is good as the original no deduction for originality.

Other parts that have no date on them can be dated by the shape Configuration that differ from the original part.

Hope that answers your question.

Paul 18046

[Patrick H.]

Re: 69 L36 Exhaust

...and, my thought is that if it was technologically possible to aluminize pipes 40 years ago then we shouldn't deduct for date.

And so it goes, back and forth.

[Terry M.]

Re: 69 L36 Exhaust

...and, my thought is that if it was technologically possible to aluminize pipes 40 years ago then we shouldn't deduct for date.

And so it goes, back and forth.

Patrick,
Our judging standard is how the factory built it, NOT how they could have built it. I think it is pretty well established that for the years you, Paul and I are interested in the OEM exhaust systems were not aluminized.