67 Bypass Hose/Fitting Paint SB

[Michael H.]

What is the deduction for a bypass hose, fitting and clamps that is not painted orange on a 327 350 HP 67? (or any 63-67 for that matter)

[Gene M.]

Re: 67 Bypass Hose/Fitting Paint SB

Mike, I think you well know the engine was painted by humans not robots. So if the entire area around the water pump and the top of the timing chain cover was bare and void of paint then the hose and fitting would be like wise. The paint scheme should be consistent. Typical factory craftsmanship is painted orange. So if it is painted there would not be a deduction. But if not in the same relative coverage of paint of surrounding area it would be two parts of the originality points. Method of assembly and inconsistent application of finish. Approximately a 2 point deduct.

[Michael H.]

Re: 67 Bypass Hose/Fitting Paint SB

Mike, I think you well know the engine was painted by humans not robots. So if the entire area around the water pump and the top of the timing chain cover was bare and void of paint then the hose and fitting would be like wise. The paint scheme should be consistent. Typical factory craftsmanship is painted orange. So if it is painted there would not be a deduction. But if not in the same relative coverage of paint of surrounding area it would be two parts of the originality points. Method of assembly and inconsistent application of finish. Approximately a 2 point deduct.

Ok, thanks Gene. That answers the question. I wondered if there would be a point for the hose and another point for the fitting.

On the paint, in general, if most of the water pump and the front of the block behind it was lacking orange paint, then we could expect to see none on the bypass hose and fitting? Sounds right.
Have you ever seen one that looked that way?

[Gene M.]

Re: 67 Bypass Hose/Fitting Paint SB

Mike,
Cars prepared for flight judging generally are prepared way better and with far more paint and care in its application than GM ever sold.

So to answer your question restored cars, no. A few original untouched ones look close to no paint in this area but age enters into the picture diffusing any definite answer. There seems to almost always have a bit of orange (on hose,clamps, and fitting) in ones I've seen.

[Michael H.]

Re: 67 Bypass Hose/Fitting Paint SB

Mike,
Cars prepared for flight judging generally are prepared way better and with far more paint and care in its application than GM ever sold.

So to answer your question restored cars, no. A few original untouched ones look close to no paint in this area but age enters into the picture diffusing any definite answer. There seems to almost always have a bit of orange (on hose,clamps, and fitting) in ones I've seen.

Gene,

I agree, old unrestored cars often do not show much original paint on the fitting or hose. There may be a good reason why a lot of the orange flaked off of some the fittings though. I think the fittings may have had a light coating of light oil from the thread cutting operation. If so, the orange paint wouldn't have lasted very long.
Other than that, some unrestored cars still have the original paint on much of the fitting and hose today, almost 50 years later.

The way that the engines were painted at Flint, it would be impossible to paint almost any part of the water pump or the engine block behind the bypass hose/fitting without covering at least half of both pieces.

I understand that a lot of restorers/owners refuse to accept the fact that these items were paint because "it just isn't pretty" but the reality is, they were painted.
If the top of the water pump was painted at Flint, so would have been the hose and fitting.

[Gene M.]

Re: 67 Bypass Hose/Fitting Paint SB

While we are talking about the paint coverage in this area, it should be mentioned that most all restorers paint the area between the back side of the water pump and the face of the timing cover. This would be impossible considering the close proximity of the two pieces. I have NEVER disassembled an original engine with these surfaces painted.

Also the area of the block behind the exhaust manifolds (on 65 and older) shouldn't be covered in paint other than overspray.

Over restoration of engine painting has become accepted as normal and does not get judged correctly.

[Michael H.]

Re: 67 Bypass Hose/Fitting Paint SB

While we are talking about the paint coverage in this area, it should be mentioned that most all restorers paint the area between the back side of the water pump and the face of the timing cover. This would be impossible considering the close proximity of the two pieces. I have NEVER disassembled an original engine with these surfaces painted.

Also the area of the block behind the exhaust manifolds (on 65 and older) shouldn't be covered in paint other than overspray.

Over restoration of engine painting has become accepted as normal and does not get judged correctly.

Yup, I agree. Most originals show that the top portion of the timing chain cover has only a light mist coat of orange. I don't think the target was ever the exposed back side of the pump or the top section of the chain cover.

Somewhere, I have some great pictures of my 4100 mile 64 FI coupe as I disassembled the engine for restoration 30 years ago. As you mentioned, there was almost zero paint behind the exhaust manifolds.

[Gene M.]

Re: 67 Bypass Hose/Fitting Paint SB

Mike,
I have a question you may know something about. Were the spark plugs installed at time of painting? If so were boots placed over them or oversprayed? I always wondered about this since even original cars, most all anyway, have had their plugs replaced.
thanks

[Mark D.]

Re: 67 Bypass Hose/Fitting Paint SB

I would bet good money that, less than 1% of all restorers would ever consider painting a motor, BB of SB, historically accurate. I always joke about having a stamp made that indicates 'TMP' for Flight judging. I have NEVER seen a restored car with an accurately painted engine. I understand why, I'm just saying when folks are spending so much money on their restorations, there is no way they are going to paint the motor with the same quality that NY or MI did.
I fully support people painting their motors as they see fit. Thing is, those motors will always take a deduction during judging (when I'm a judge) because they are not 'typical.' Those motors that are historically accurate deserve credit.

[John H.]

Re: 67 Bypass Hose/Fitting Paint SB

Were the spark plugs installed at time of painting? If so were boots placed over them or oversprayed? I always wondered about this since even original cars, most all anyway, have had their plugs replaced.
thanks

Gene -

Yes, the plugs were in place, and were masked with cardboard tubes.

[Michael H.]

Re: 67 Bypass Hose/Fitting Paint SB

Mike,
I have a question you may know something about. Were the spark plugs installed at time of painting? If so were boots placed over them or oversprayed? I always wondered about this since even original cars, most all anyway, have had their plugs replaced.
thanks

Gene,

Yes, absolutely. The spark plugs were definitely installed before the engine was painted and part of the steel base would almost always have a coat of orange. The paint would be from the base to somewhere near the hex section.
If you slide a spark plug socket over spark plug, that would probably be close to what Flint used to cover the rest of the plug.

The original spark plugs from the 64 that we bought new in 64 had a lot of orange on each plug. Some more than others.

It definitely had a lot of orange on the bypass hose and fitting too. ☺

[Michael H.]

Re: 67 Bypass Hose/Fitting Paint SB

I would bet good money that, less than 1% of all restorers would ever consider painting a motor, BB of SB, historically accurate. I always joke about having a stamp made that indicates 'TMP' for Flight judging. I have NEVER seen a restored car with an accurately painted engine. I understand why, I'm just saying when folks are spending so much money on their restorations, there is no way they are going to paint the motor with the same quality that NY or MI did.
I fully support people painting their motors as they see fit. Thing is, those motors will always take a deduction during judging (when I'm a judge) because they are not 'typical.' Those motors that are historically accurate deserve credit.

I agree. It may be difficult, and/or illogical for a lot of folks to accurately restore their cars but I understand their side of the issue too. It's not for everyone.

And guess who started all this nonsense about painted exhaust manifolds, anyway.

[Mark D.]

Re: 67 Bypass Hose/Fitting Paint SB

Yo Yo, DB. And not only that but he started painting those dad blame bypass hoses, too.

[Michael H.]

Re: 67 Bypass Hose/Fitting Paint SB

Yo Yo, DB. And not only that but he started painting those dad blame bypass hoses, too.

Ahhh... no. It was me. I talked DB into painting the manifolds on my old 396 car that he restored. (in fact, I think he even credeted me with the theory in his book)

I was the 1st.. I painted the manifolds orange on my 64 FI coupe when I restored the engine way back in the 70's. When people looked at it at Bloomington, some laughed.. Some argued and others just shook their head and walked away. Took decades to convince most that the things were on the engines when Flint painted them.

[Michael G.]

Re: 67 Bypass Hose/Fitting Paint SB

Here ya go guys....low mileage, unrestored, original bypass