C2 65 Tie Rod Ends

[Mark P.]

Can someone please tell me the GM part number on the box for tie rod ends for a 65.

What years are the same ?

Any forging #'s on these tie rods ?

Are NOS tie rod ends hard to find ?

[Joe L.]

Re: C2 65 Tie Rod Ends

Can someone please tell me the GM part number on the box for tie rod ends for a 65.

What years are the same ?

Any forging #'s on these tie rods ?

Are NOS tie rod ends hard to find ?

Mark------


The outer rods (RH thread) were GM #3826814. These MAY carry forging number 3826815. Not all of these have a forging number, though.

The inner rods (LH thread) were GM #3826596. These MAY have forging number 3826597. Not all have a forging number.

The above were used for all 1963-82 Corvettes. The 3826814 were also used for 1963-64 C-10 2WD pick-up trucks but for no other GM applications. The 3826596 were also used for 1964 G-10 trucks but for no other GM applications.

Are the above difficult to find? I would say yes and especially so for the 3826596.

[Jim S.]

Re: C2 65 Tie Rod Ends

Joe,
I was always under the impression that the outer tie rod ends were LH threads. I know that the tie rod sleeve has a groove to identify the LH thread.

This Bair's ad identifies the groove with the LH thread.


I don't think that my scan from the AIM shows the groove location. (I don't have access to my originals since I am not home this week.) Figure 1 below is my own sketch so I could be wrong.

Jim

[Mark P.]

Re: C2 65 Tie Rod Ends

Thanks so much. I will start looking.

[Ridge K.]

Re: C2 65 Tie Rod Ends

Thanks so much. I will start looking.

Mark, I might mention my experience in finding these NOS parts. I have admitted an addiction of mine to original NOS parts stocked for my own '67.
I have looked for a complete set of NOS GM tie rod ends since 2005. Having done the usual fleabay searches, in addition to traveling to a dozen major swap meet across America every year.
I've never seen a mint set in boxes for less than maybe $375, and have seen several priced in the high $400s, clear up to $500.

As Joe mentions, remaining NOS examples are very hard to find. Expect to pay a hefty price. I have never found a set that I was comfortable with the price, although at times I have wished I had bought the $375 set that is now long gone....

Ridge.

[Jim S.]

Re: C2 65 Tie Rod Ends

Joe,
I wonder why the different forging numbers? I can see the machining numbers must be different since the different threads. But the forging shouldn't care if the thread is going to be LH or RH. I can almost see one forging for all four ends or four different forgings (one for each end) before needing only two.

Saginaw rarely if ever manufactured Chevrolet linkages so I don't have access to the Chevrolet drawings.
Jim

[Joe L.]

Re: C2 65 Tie Rod Ends

Joe,
I was always under the impression that the outer tie rod ends were LH threads. I know that the tie rod sleeve has a groove to identify the LH thread.

This Bair's ad identifies the groove with the LH thread.


I don't think that my scan from the AIM shows the groove location. (I don't have access to my originals since I am not home this week.) Figure 1 below is my own sketch so I could be wrong.

Jim

Jim------


This has been a long-running point of contention. GM says that the outer tie rod ends were RH thread and the inner ends were LH thread. I don't know, for sure. I rebuilt my front end years ago and I cannot be 100% sure I installed the tie rods in the original orientation. I think I did but I'm not sure.

[Harry S.]

Re: C2 65 Tie Rod Ends

I guess the first question is why was one a left thread and one a right thread??

For ease of alignment!

The second question is, when the car reached the end of the assembly line and it was ready for alignment, in what direction was the guy in the pit facing and in what direction did he expect to turn the tie-rod for adjustment? There must have been a standard as there was little time to waste on trying to figure out how it was setup.

With the answer from the second question you can determine were the tie-rod ends were placed LH in or LH out, per side?

[Joe L.]

Re: C2 65 Tie Rod Ends

Joe,
I wonder why the different forging numbers? I can see the machining numbers must be different since the different threads. But the forging shouldn't care if the thread is going to be LH or RH. I can almost see one forging for all four ends or four different forgings (one for each end) before needing only two.

Saginaw rarely if ever manufactured Chevrolet linkages so I don't have access to the Chevrolet drawings.
Jim

Jim------


The numbers I've reported are the numbers that GM SAYS were the forging numbers used for each piece. Personally, I've never seen one of these tie rod ends with either of those forging numbers (or, any derivative of those forging numbers). However, OFFICIALLY, those were the forging numbers used and, whether or not they actually appear on the pieces, I have no doubt that those forging numbers existed. Whether they were actually exclusively used for each respective piece, I do not know.

I have a rather large collection of NOS tie rod ends [absolutely NONE FOR SALE]. Not a single one of these tie rod ends has either forging number on it. A few of the older pieces (the ones in the black and yellow boxes date back to at least 1965, or so) do have a series of the three numbers and a suffixing alpha character on them ("314B", "308F") but I am virtually certain these are forging die numbers. "GMT" also appears on these indicating they were forged at the Tonawanda forge.

I actually have more NOS examples of these tie rod ends but I'm not going to look through any more tote bins to find them. I do not think the results of inspection for numbers is going to be any different. However, one of the "unfound" 3826596 has a blue dye "splotch" on it whereas none of those pictured does. Note, though, that virtually all of the 3826814 have the yellow dye "splotch".

Pictured below are the GM #3826596 pieces:

[Joe L.]

Re: C2 65 Tie Rod Ends

Pictured below are the GM #3826814 pieces:


Why do I have so many of these? Well, it's simple. Thery're part of my "security blanket". Meaning that if I start driving the car 100,000 miles a year and I live to be 300 years old, I'll have enough original parts for the duration. I just want to make sure I'm covered.

[Ridge K.]

Re: C2 65 Tie Rod Ends

Jim------


The numbers I've reported are the numbers that GM SAYS were the forging numbers used for each piece. Personally, I've never seen one of these tie rod ends with either of those forging numbers (or, any derivative of those forging numbers). However, OFFICIALLY, those were the forging numbers used and, whether or not they actually appear on the pieces, I have no doubt that those forging numbers existed. Whether they were actually exclusively used for each respective piece, I do not know.

I have a rather large collection of NOS tie rod ends [absolutely NONE FOR SALE]. Not a single one of these tie rod ends has either forging number on it. A few of the older pieces (the ones in the black and yellow boxes date back to at least 1965, or so) do have a series of the three numbers and a suffixing alpha character on them ("314B", "308F") but I am virtually certain these are forging die numbers. "GMT" also appears on these indicating they were forged at the Tonawanda forge.

I actually have more NOS examples of these tie rod ends but I'm not going to look through any more tote bins to find them. I do not think the results of inspection for numbers is going to be any different. However, one of the "unfound" 3826596 has a blue dye "splotch" on it whereas none of those pictured does. Note, though, that virtually all of the 3826814 have the yellow dye "splotch".

Pictured below are the GM #3826596 pieces:

Joe, I've wanted to ask you this before, but tried to wait until the matter came up.
In your opinion, did the black and yellow boxes run up until 1965? Like you, I have a decent collection of vintage NOS GM parts (1/200th the size of your vast collection).

I have tried to pinpoint that box change over, and had felt myself that the black and yellow boxes ran up into 1965. Was curious about this as I try to date the approximate original sold date of parts I have bought second-hand.

Thanks, Ridge.

[Joe L.]

Re: C2 65 Tie Rod Ends

Joe, I've wanted to ask you this before, but tried to wait until the matter came up.
In your opinion, did the black and yellow boxes run up until 1965? Like you, I have a decent collection of vintage NOS GM parts (1/200th the size of your vast collection).

I have tried to pinpoint that box change over, and had felt myself that the black and yellow boxes ran up into 1965. Was curious about this as I try to date the approximate original sold date of parts I have bought second-hand.

Thanks, Ridge.

Ridge------


I don't think there's an absolutely definitive change-over date. I think the change was "phased" for a lot of reasons. For one thing, parts may reside in GM wherehouse stock for quite awhile. We may know when they CAME OUT OF stock, but we have absolutely no way of knowing when they WENT INTO wherehouse stock.

For another thing, many parts were boxed at the various GM wherehouses. I'm sure that each used up their stock of boxes of EACH SIZE in black and yellow before they changed-over to the new boxes.

I consider 1965 as a "rule-of-thumb" change-over date.

[Ridge K.]

Re: C2 65 Tie Rod Ends

Ridge------


I don't think there's an absolutely definitive change-over date. I think the change was "phased" for a lot of reasons. For one thing, parts may reside in GM wherehouse stock for quite awhile. We may know when they CAME OUT OF stock, but we have absolutely no way of knowing when they WENT INTO wherehouse stock.

For another thing, many parts were boxed at the various GM wherehouses. I'm sure that each used up their stock of boxes of EACH SIZE in black and yellow before they changed-over to the new boxes.

I consider 1965 as a "rule-of-thumb" change-over date.

Thanks Joe!

[Jim S.]

Re: C2 65 Tie Rod Ends

Joe,
Do you have the part number for of the linkage assembly. There were probably several through the years. Linkage dampers, power versus manual, large intermediate rods, etc. But a linkage assembly drawing should show a tie rod adjuster with a groove (LH) thread inboard or outboard. I don't know if Saginaw would have any of those Chevrolet drawings in their archives or not. But I could ask.

Jim

[Joe L.]

Re: C2 65 Tie Rod Ends

Joe,
Do you have the part number for of the linkage assembly. There were probably several through the years. Linkage dampers, power versus manual, large intermediate rods, etc. But a linkage assembly drawing should show a tie rod adjuster with a groove (LH) thread inboard or outboard. I don't know if Saginaw would have any of those Chevrolet drawings in their archives or not. But I could ask.

Jim

Jim-----


manual steering

63-66-----3829447

67-68-----3908113

69-76-----3952701

power steering

63-66-----3826987

67-68-----3908107

69-76-----3952703

77-81-----378296

82--------14047799