Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

[Terry M.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

Thanks to u Terry, I've got an appointment to have the car checked this Fri. A member who has been helping me via phone/email has given me a recommendation of a reliable shop.

I did the search per u'r recommendation...it looks kinda scary if it's more than wheel bearings. However, the car was body off restored so I'm hoping that the bearings weren't done & the problem didn't surface when it was driven on & off it's trailer....there were only 60 ml. put on it after restoration. I've driven 450 ml. in 4 weeks.

Owrwe, I too hope it is nothing complex for you. There are some tests that can be done by any competent Corvette shop. Trailing arm bearings require a high degree of precision, just like differentials, so even if they were "restored" recently they are worth checking since not everyone has the skills to do the job properly. Best of luck & keep us posted.

[Peter N.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

Owrwe, I too hope it is nothing complex for you. There are some tests that can be done by any competent Corvette shop. Trailing arm bearings require a high degree of precision, just like differentials, so even if they were "restored" recently they are worth checking since not everyone has the skills to do the job properly. Best of luck & keep us posted.

Well, it was the bearings...here's how it was partially explained to me :

".....will show you the damage to one of the bearing seals on your left side wheel bearings.........it did not seat right, and it just kinked on one side when the bearings were pressed together into the spindle support on the left rear. That was one reason why the bearings could not be assembled to the very tight specs they must be for proper road use. No problem on a trailer queen however."

Since this thread is about my wheels, here's this bit of info.

The shop went through a 6 lb lead hammer trying to turn the Left Rear Spinner (I never touched that side)..he called me & said that he may have to damage the spinner...no prob I said, it's a repo...he needed a air hammer to loosen it!...it wasn't the same problem I had w/ the RF when the pin was stuck...he got the pin out w/o difficulty ...hate to think if I had found that out first when I needed to change a flat

[Thomas C.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

When tighten spinner make sure wheel is off the ground and alternate hitting the spinners as you go. Once you have the pin groove lined (key way) up I use brake cleaner spray and spray the hole and the pin, I then apply a dab of 100% silicone to the pin and knock it home, never had a problem.

[Mike Z.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

Peter,
I am coming to the party a little late on this one, have been super busy in my shop and not regularly checking the discussion board-had a friend contact me about your problem. I run a restoration shop, that one of my specialties is in K-O wheel restoration.
Over the years, I have seen several problems that needed to be addressed in the restoration process, many as a result of lose wheel damage. From the pis (nice job by the way), you are using the correct direction hub/spinner for RH. Here are a couple of things you might look for:
1) Remove not only the wheel, but also the hub adapter. Insure the rotor surface and hub adapter surfaces (both sides) are absolutely smooth, clean and free of blemishes or damage-uneven surfaces could result in the wheel not setting flush; thus not making full contact.
2) Use a torque wrench to install the proper lugs (appears you have them) to factory specs in a cross tightening fashion, using at least 2-3 steps to get to your final of 65lbs/sf.
3) It is hard to tell for sure, but it appears (light & dark areas) the cone area of the wheel that contacts the spinner may need attention. It should be flat from the outer lip to the inner tapper. What appears to be different colors maybe indicitive of not making full contact or roundness. If minor imperfections, grooves or out of round, use a half round file working perpendicular to the circumference to level the cone from top to bottom. That can/will flatten the surface. If out of round or more damage than light filing can resolve, you may have to have machined round-take the machinist the spinner to obtain the angle cut. If this surface is not round and flat, the spinner can not make full contact and provide sufficient pressure. Usually, the spinner does not have the same issues, as the chrome surface is much harder, but can develop burrs or build up from the wheel material-make sure is clean.
4) I recommend and have used for almost 30 years, a light coat of anti-sieze compound on the threads-if the spinner stays on for an extended period of time, you will thank yourself for using.
5) I believe my years of experience of installing the spinners is different from many I have seen in this thread. Forget the lead hammers-they just mess up your spinner. The fancy wrenches are nice-I like the aluminum head with long "cheater", not the poly lined one (too much give). But, what I have used for many years is a large ball pin hammer (about a 3lber) and a piece of 2X4 about 18" long.
6) With much of weight off the wheel-just enough left that with a wood block it will not turn; place the 2X4 perpendicular to the car on the spinner wing and whack the 2X4 above where it contacts the spinner until the spinner does not move any further. The 2X4 will not harm the chrome surface. Drop the weight and whack it again a few times.
7) Go drive the car about 10 miles, come back and whack again.
8) Go drive the car about 50-100 miles, come back and whack again.

I thought Roger Piper's idea of the Sharpie was great. Following the above method, I have not had a lose wheel issue-ever. The only problem I have had is getting them off after an extended time-thus the anti-sieze. I have used this method on OEM and Western brand (which used the original molds), but have not ever had experience with the pins-don't think I would use them, they don't seem to work all that well and if get jambed in out of the groove can be a real hassle to get out.

Good Luck, I hope you solve your problem. You have had several very good suggestions to try.

Mike Zamora
#12455

[Patrick S.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

Do not forget to use "anti sieze" when assembling. Aluminum to aluminum becomes one without it. I learned the hard way before I went to ss knock of spinners.

[Jim L.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

Do not forget to use "anti sieze" when assembling. Aluminum to aluminum becomes one without it. I learned the hard way before I went to ss knock of spinners.

I learned this lesson the hard way, too, with an aluminum spinner and an aluminum wheel. Removal took a specially made spanner wrench preloaded with a torque of 1000+ ft-lbs and pounding on the spinner ears with a 4 lb steel sledge hammer.




I now use steel spinners.

(Before someone points out that the spanner tool in the picture is configured to tighten the spinner, not loosen it, yes, that's true. The picture was made only to illustrate the use of the tool.)
Jim

[John N.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

Check the wheel,the KO, and the cone where they seat. If it's rough at all where it seats you're wasting your time. My bet is if it was run loose once it has lost that taper. Good luck

I lost a spinner at Laguna Seca on a Halibrand. Some one had chrome plated the spinner and the spinner seat face was rounded from polishing rather than having the correct taper.
Regards

[Patrick S.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

J.im,
I Had To Use The "drill And Chip" Method! Took A Long Time And I Was Amazed At How Much "bonding Of Metal There Was

[Jim L.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

J.im,
I Had To Use The "drill And Chip" Method! Took A Long Time And I Was Amazed At How Much "bonding Of Metal There Was

The spinner in your picture looks like the steel Halibrand "Torrance" variety. You had one of those seize up???? Reason I'm curious is that I'm now using them in lieu of the aluminum Halibrand spinners.

Jim

[Patrick S.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

The spinner in the picture is the ss replacement. The siezed PIECES are mounted in on the garage wall as a reminder.
They have a "Shelby America" inscription and I got them from PS.
Pat

[Jim L.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

The spinner in the picture is the ss replacement.

Pat, are you saying the spinner in the picture is stainless steel? And is it, as my eye leads me to believe, a Halibrand "Torrance" spinner? If the answer to both is "yes", where did you find it? All of the "Torrance" spinners I've seen and have are plain steel.

Jim

[Patrick S.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

Jim,
Yes, the spinners in the picture are stainless. I believe I got them from PS Vintage Wheels (Phil Schmidt at 310-534-4477). The wheels shown are on my 289 ERA Cobra and the spinners are embossed with "Shelby American".
I noticed PS also sells Grand Sports KO's.
I lust after your road race Vette. For the last 10 years my bucket list included some vintage racing and I wanted an old Vette but the closest I got was "track days" in the Cobra.
I traded the Cobra for a very nice 1962 FI and now I am almost happy to just drive around.
Pat

[Jim L.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

Yes, the spinners in the picture are stainless. I believe I got them from PS Vintage Wheels (Phil Schmidt at 310-534-4477). The wheels shown are on my 289 ERA Cobra and the spinners are embossed with "Shelby American".

Well, I'll be.... The only spinners I knew Phil sold were the aluminum ones made by Lynn Park's old Trigo Company. He or someone went to a lot of trouble to tool up to produce those stainless pieces of jewelry you have. Except for the "Shelby American" embossment, they are dead ringers for the old Halibrand "Torrance" spinners and that's why I kept asking.

I noticed PS also sells Grand Sports KO's.

Yes, and Phil has a lot of my money as a result of that.

I lust after your road race Vette. For the last 10 years my bucket list included some vintage racing and I wanted an old Vette but the closest I got was "track days" in the Cobra.

The car in the picture is my bride's track car. She occasionally gets this irrational "need for speed" and that's how she gets it out of her system. I just borrowed a picture of it for my avatar.

However, depending on how serious your lust is, take a look at this:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1s-...age-racer.html

To the OP..... sincere apologies for hijacking your thread. I hope you discover the root cause of the wheel retention problems. KO's are perfectly safe when everything about the installation is done properly.

Jim

[Dan B.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

It has OEM KO wheels on Bias Ply. Since I was going to make a driver out of this Trailer Queen, he recommended to change these to safer repo's that bolt on but look like KOs. Instead of bolt on he produced used KO's that utilized safety pins, charged me $1,600. I also had DB radials installed.

Sounds like you did NOT get what you originally paid for if I am reading this correctly. I have a set of the new Corvette America D/B/O wheels. They are worry free bolt on and forget it. No beating the crap out of the wheels to get them to stay on and they look great. If it were me, I'd try to get the dealer to exchange those wheels and get what you originally thought you were getting. IMHO, you will enjoy the car a whole lot more. Dan

[Peter N.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

Peter,
I am coming to the party a little late on this one, have been super busy in my shop and not regularly checking the discussion board-had a friend contact me about your problem. I run a restoration shop, that one of my specialties is in K-O wheel restoration.
Over the years, I have seen several problems that needed to be addressed in the restoration process, many as a result of lose wheel damage. From the pis (nice job by the way), you are using the correct direction hub/spinner for RH. Here are a couple of things you might look for:
1) Remove not only the wheel, but also the hub adapter. Insure the rotor surface and hub adapter surfaces (both sides) are absolutely smooth, clean and free of blemishes or damage-uneven surfaces could result in the wheel not setting flush; thus not making full contact.
2) Use a torque wrench to install the proper lugs (appears you have them) to factory specs in a cross tightening fashion, using at least 2-3 steps to get to your final of 65lbs/sf.
3) It is hard to tell for sure, but it appears (light & dark areas) the cone area of the wheel that contacts the spinner may need attention. It should be flat from the outer lip to the inner tapper. What appears to be different colors maybe indicitive of not making full contact or roundness. If minor imperfections, grooves or out of round, use a half round file working perpendicular to the circumference to level the cone from top to bottom. That can/will flatten the surface. If out of round or more damage than light filing can resolve, you may have to have machined round-take the machinist the spinner to obtain the angle cut. If this surface is not round and flat, the spinner can not make full contact and provide sufficient pressure. Usually, the spinner does not have the same issues, as the chrome surface is much harder, but can develop burrs or build up from the wheel material-make sure is clean.
4) I recommend and have used for almost 30 years, a light coat of anti-sieze compound on the threads-if the spinner stays on for an extended period of time, you will thank yourself for using.
5) I believe my years of experience of installing the spinners is different from many I have seen in this thread. Forget the lead hammers-they just mess up your spinner. The fancy wrenches are nice-I like the aluminum head with long "cheater", not the poly lined one (too much give). But, what I have used for many years is a large ball pin hammer (about a 3lber) and a piece of 2X4 about 18" long.
6) With much of weight off the wheel-just enough left that with a wood block it will not turn; place the 2X4 perpendicular to the car on the spinner wing and whack the 2X4 above where it contacts the spinner until the spinner does not move any further. The 2X4 will not harm the chrome surface. Drop the weight and whack it again a few times.
7) Go drive the car about 10 miles, come back and whack again.
8) Go drive the car about 50-100 miles, come back and whack again.

I thought Roger Piper's idea of the Sharpie was great. Following the above method, I have not had a lose wheel issue-ever. The only problem I have had is getting them off after an extended time-thus the anti-sieze. I have used this method on OEM and Western brand (which used the original molds), but have not ever had experience with the pins-don't think I would use them, they don't seem to work all that well and if get jambed in out of the groove can be a real hassle to get out.

Good Luck, I hope you solve your problem. You have had several very good suggestions to try.

Mike Zamora
#12455

Good advice...thanks

I learned this lesson the hard way, too, with an aluminum spinner and an aluminum wheel. Removal took a specially made spanner wrench preloaded with a torque of 1000+ ft-lbs and pounding on the spinner ears with a 4 lb steel sledge hammer.




I now use steel spinners.

(Before someone points out that the spanner tool in the picture is configured to tighten the spinner, not loosen it, yes, that's true. The picture was made only to illustrate the use of the tool.)
Jim

Wish my mechanic had u'r tool (not that one...the one in the photo)...he had to use an air hammer on the LR wheel that the "should have known better" corvette dealer tightened w/o anti-seize...ruined the repo spinner of course. Same situation that I had w/ the RF noted above which took me DAYS to loosen.