Gasoline ethanol content

[Duke W.]

In order to quash all the myths, misinformation, and conspiracy theories about gasoline look at the following EPA Web page. It is current as of this month.

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/additive/e15/index.htm

And feel free to visit the various tabs and links to learn more facts about currently available motor fuels. This is a better use of you time than typing in various hearsay that you find on the Web and hear at car shows.

Note that E15 is optional for newer vehicles, but don't expect retailers to rush to offer it because it will require considerable investment in new tanks and pumps, and if a retailer does choose to offer E15, the pump must have the required label, nationwide.

This page also clearly states that the current ethanol limit for all model year use gasoline is 10 percent by volume. If you suspect that a retailer is selling fuel with more than 10 percent (other than properly labeled E15) contact you local air resources authority or the EPA.

What we now know as "E10" was introduced to some markets circa 1980 and marketed as "gasohol". It was about this time that fuel system elastomers were upgraded to tolerate up to 10 percent by volume ethanol.

If you have any elastomers in your fuel system that are older than 30 years, you may have problems, but general deterioration from age and heat is probably the most likely cause of any 30-years old or older elastomer failures.

Duke

[Joe R.]

Re: Gasoline ethanol content

In order to quash all the myths, misinformation, and conspiracy theories about gasoline look at the following EPA Web page. It is current as of this month.

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/additive/e15/index.htm

And feel free to visit the various tabs and links to learn more facts about currently available motor fuels. This is a better use of you time than typing in various hearsay that you find on the Web and hear at car shows.

Note that E15 is optional for newer vehicles, but don't expect retailers to rush to offer it because it will require considerable investment in new tanks and pumps, and if a retailer does choose to offer E15, the pump must have the required label, nationwide.

This page also clearly states that the current ethanol limit for all model year use gasoline is 10 percent by volume. If you suspect that a retailer is selling fuel with more than 10 percent (other than properly labeled E15) contact you local air resources authority or the EPA.

What we now know as "E10" was introduced to some markets circa 1980 and marketed as "gasohol". It was about this time that fuel system elastomers were upgraded to tolerate up to 10 percent by volume ethanol.

If you have any elastomers in your fuel system that are older than 30 years, you may have problems, but general deterioration from age is probably the most likely cause of any 30-years old or older elastomer failures.

Duke

Duke,

Thanks for posting that. It's refreshing to see real info, not garbage from the misinformation highway.

Joe

[Duke W.]

Re: Gasoline ethanol content

to the top

[Ronald L.]

Re: Gasoline ethanol content

Duke,

With all due respect there is not one single driver out there that will have substantiated evidence that "they suspect a retailer has been dumping more ROH into the gasoline mix".

How many people do you see testing the gasoline as they fill up???

How do I suspect all is not well? Simple, Modern engines and emmission control systems throw a MIL light. I had that happen and the next tank of gas clears that up. Why the mil light? Bad gas. Was it ROH (alcohol)? I don't have any idea. Its a circular argument that the customer never will win because by the time it happens, you either have to drain the tank or more typical - burn it out - the evidence is gone.


Then, given the USA pipline general distribution and mixing for ROH into the petrol stocks, what's the control process so they get it right?

Are they ISO, TS? You know that saying: I am from Missouri - show me.

[Duke W.]

Re: Gasoline ethanol content

There have been numerous claims on the Web and by word of mouth that some gasoline has more than 10 percent ethanol.

The subject came up in a recent thread, and one post claims that there is a test for ethanol content on the Web, but gave no details or links. It's unsubstantiated posts like this the perpetuate the myths, misinformation, and conspiricy theories. My purpose in starting this thread is to give TDB members some basic facts so they can discriminate between reality and bubba's parallel universe.

I don't know the quality control processes used by fuel blenders, but fuel blending is a major business under the scrutiny of the EPA, and given the substantial civil penalties (and even criminal, if criminal intent is evident) I reasonably believe that fuel blenders have suitable quality control processes in place to keep ethanol and other additive levels in the correct range for the region and brand they are blending.

If you want proof, go visit a local fuel blender/distributor and tell us what you find.

Duke

[Dick W.]

Re: Gasoline ethanol content

I do have an ethanol testing kit. I have compared one brand to another. There is never over 1% variation.

Ronald, I suspect the difference you see is due to the additive package, cheaper brands have very little, better brands have quite a bit more.

[Duke W.]

Re: Gasoline ethanol content

Can you tell us more about these ethanol testing kits... how they work, where they can be procurred, and how much they cost?

Also, what is the range - percent by volume - of ethanol content you are seeing?

Duke

[Francis F.]

Re: Gasoline ethanol content

Duke, I live in western new york,just outside of Buffalo n.y.
and there is a local gash station that is offering fuel with no ethanol.
I have seen it at only one of there outletsmbut will be checking others as I pass by.perhaps this will be avail.to more inthe future?
FRANCIS

[Richard E.]

Re: Gasoline ethanol content

You can Google ethanol test kit and it will tell you to get a rain guage from Wallmart and put 1" of water and so much gas.The ethanol will go to the water it says so you can tell the ethanol content.I don't remember how much gas or water to use but a guy i know tested 3-4 different brands and all were over 10% in this area.The local Pilot station had cars shutting off from excess
ethanol(in the news paper).I have had my chainsaw and 2 weed wackers gas lines desolve for some unknown reason...

[Terry M.]

Re: Gasoline ethanol content

Can you tell us more about these ethanol testing kits... how they work, where they can be procurred, and how much they cost?

Also, what is the range - percent by volume - of ethanol content you are seeing?

Duke

Dke,

We have an alcohol test kit at school -- local Commnity College Auto Shop. It is made by Kent Moore. I used it once and it involves gradated beakers and chemicals. There is a seperation of chemicals in the gradated beaker and one uses simple math to calculate a percentage of alcohol in the fuel. We used it in a demonstration to show that a flex fuel vehicle (I believe we used a F*&d of some kind) can calculate the amount of alcohol in the fuel and adjust the mixture electronically to optimize operation for the quantity of alcohol in the fuel mix.

Here is one kit I just googled:

http://www.fuel-testers.com/order_ethanol_alcohol_fuel_test_kit.html

I didn't find any Kent Moore kits at the moment.

[Clem Z.]

Re: Gasoline ethanol content

You can Google ethanol test kit and it will tell you to get a rain guage from Wallmart and put 1" of water and so much gas.The ethanol will go to the water it says so you can tell the ethanol content.I don't remember how much gas or water to use but a guy i know tested 3-4 different brands and all were over 10% in this area.The local Pilot station had cars shutting off from excess
ethanol(in the news paper).I have had my chainsaw and 2 weed wackers gas lines desolve for some unknown reason...

my weed wacker had the fuel disappear over the winter.

[Clem Z.]

Re: Gasoline ethanol content

a glass graduated baby bottle will work.just put in water to a certain mark on the bottle and add gasoline and shake well. the ethanol will absorb the water and when the mixture seperate into gas and water you can read the amount the water has increased and that is the % of ethanol. a graduated lab cylinder will also work

[G A.]

Re: Gasoline ethanol content

There have been numerous claims on the Web and by word of mouth that some gasoline has more than 10 percent ethanol.

I don't know the quality control processes used by fuel blenders, but fuel blending is a major business under the scrutiny of the EPA, and given the substantial civil penalties (and even criminal, if criminal intent is evident)

Duke

Duke,

I will certainly bow to your expertise on this subject.

However, may I introduce a facet that is overlooked?
The EPA enforcement arm is almost nonexistent. An "Act of Congress" is ALMOST required (or a high visibility complaint) to get any enforceable action out of this useless, overfunded, ridiculously over-mandated **** agency (yes, I mean that).
In my OPINION the only check on a company that is "certified" to blend the ethanol is the operator of the equipment at the time. If I was blending the fuel at 0300 (in the AM) I can almost guarantee that I would on occasion make mistakes leading to
1. Not enough ethanol

AND

2. TOO MUCH ethanol.

No "criminal" intent.

Probably too much Bud whilst enjoying the game earlier this evening.

-Dan

****=WOW!!! I can't even use that word???? ****= the party of National Socialists that governed Germany during 1937 -1945. That would mean an 'N' and an 'A' a 'Z' and an 'I'.

Holy crap!! I thought this was AMERICA. What happened to my FIRST AMENDANT RIGHTS?? MODERATORS???????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????

[G A.]

Re: Gasoline ethanol content

My father fought the AXIS powers in WWII to give us the freedom to pursue the AMERICAN WAY and I can't even post a reply that contains the word 'N'A'Z'I'????
What's up NCRS????? Is this America or not??????????????????????

-Dan and Cyril Olan Andrews who bought you your rights via his own BLOOD.

[John H.]

Re: Gasoline ethanol content

The vBulletin censor robot's pre-loaded vocabulary of words contains LOTS of words (and parts of words) it doesn't like; probably needs some deleted.