Mix-I-Go Concentrate Gasoline and Ethanol Treatment

[Ronald L.]

Re: Mix-I-Go Concentrate Gasoline and Ethanol Treatment

Bruce,
That Industrial Chemistry class I had way back when was really valuable, debunked a lot of the common things you encounter in life, and it was taught by one of the top brass at from the local petro cracking co. Marathon.

Now back to that ROH discussion... Hasn't anyone notice that their mileage just jumped??? As if you are from the midwest, the mandatory ROH increase during summer months just went away. That alone takes me from 15MPG to 17 using the same pump gas. Could be two things at work, alcohol costs more and with the lower prices they are cutting back, or their subsidized % is lower so they cut back.

They don't put that in the fuel because its better for us, that's for sure.

I won't go into the discussion about molecular volume where back then...it was clear you would have less combustible components that produce energy with alcohol in the fuel mix. You can't beat the laws of physics, even though many still try.

[Richard E.]

Re: Mix-I-Go Concentrate Gasoline and Ethanol Treatment

My 67/435 runs great on Sunoco 112 at $7.20 a gal and in the long run is probably better for the engine.A friend tested several brands of gas here and
all were above 10% with some 20% or more ethanol.It tells how to check it on the net.

[Clem Z.]

Re: Mix-I-Go Concentrate Gasoline and Ethanol Treatment

My 67/435 runs great on Sunoco 112 at $7.20 a gal and in the long run is probably better for the engine.A friend tested several brands of gas here and
all were above 10% with some 20% or more ethanol.It tells how to check it on the net.

the ethanol is added to the tankers as they fill at the bulk plant is what i have been told. this is why i avoid any non national brand gasoline. back in the day when i was doing a lot of carbs i could tell at what station the locals were buying their gasoline by what i found in the float bowls. the no name stations gasoline always had something causing problems like clogged fuel filters. these no name stations around here are gone.

[Stuart F.]

Re: Mix-I-Go Concentrate Gasoline and Ethanol Treatment

No doubt adding Ethanol in a tanker is a very precise process - ya!

That "more than 10%" is starting to sound more plausible now and less like rumor or story.

Stu Fox

[Michael W.]

Re: Mix-I-Go Concentrate Gasoline and Ethanol Treatment

A conspiracy theory based upon what a third party heard from an unnamed source. Works for me!

[Clem Z.]

Re: Mix-I-Go Concentrate Gasoline and Ethanol Treatment

i ask the driver when he was at the station filling the underground tanks. he also said the ethanol is brought in by tanker trucks because it can not be pipe lined in because of water pickup in the pipe lines. no wonder these gas stations now have all this special equipment to read the amount of water in their tanks. before they used to just "stick" the tanks. makes you wonder how they can sell gas as cheap as they do considering all these extra costs. NASCAR now uses E15 in their race cars and it is dispensed at the track from tanker trucks because the under ground tanks pick up too much water setting there between races. no i did not give the driver a lie detector test because the FBI could not get there quick enough.

[Duke W.]

Re: Mix-I-Go Concentrate Gasoline and Ethanol Treatment

How about if everyone on the TDB pledges NOT to promulgate, myths, misinformation, and conspiricy theories.

And do some homework before you speculate or pass on unsubstantiated information.

As far as ethanol is concerned you don't know jack unless you read the FACTS on this Web page:

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/additive/e15/index.htm

Note that E15 is optional for newer vehicles, but don't expect retailers to rush to offer it because it will require considerable investment in new tanks and pumps, and if a retailer does choose to offer E15, the pump must have the required label, nationwide.

This page also clearly states that current ethanol limit is 10 percent by volume. If you suspect that a retailer is selling fuel with more than 10 percent (other than properly labeled E15) contact you local air resources authority or the EPA.

Duke

[Stuart F.]

Re: Mix-I-Go Concentrate Gasoline and Ethanol Treatment

I guess I'm guilty then. Sorry, but sometimes I can't resist pulling people's chains to explore their range of sensitivity. Let's see now; that includes oil, leaded gas, electronic ignition conversion kits, and now Ethanol. The latter; however, is a pet peeve of mine because it is something being forced down our "carburetor throats" by the know nothing legislators and their EPA tree hugger friends in collution with the midwest farmers with their undeserved subsidies.

Stu Fox

[Ronald L.]

Re: Mix-I-Go Concentrate Gasoline and Ethanol Treatment

Duke,
Its not clear what you are saying. ROH is not mixed in at the distributor?

There is a network of huge petrol pipes lines across the USA.

There was one that broke out near Jackson MI a few years back that some may remember influenced MI fuel prices for some time.

Anyway - those 12' dia pipes pump oils gasoline, etc. The pipes are always under pressure moving something.

The no-name gas stations bought the tails.

[Duke W.]

Re: Mix-I-Go Concentrate Gasoline and Ethanol Treatment

I don't know what you mean by "ROH."

Ethanol is added at the distribution point - blended into the tanker truck when it takes on a load for delivery to a retailer.

Ethanol and ethanol laced gasoline have never been transported by pipeline because ethanol readily absorbs water and all pipelines have some water contamination in them.

Ethanol is shipped to the distribution point by railroad tankcar and may see the last few miles in a dedicated highway tanker if no railroad siding is available. (Ethanol was a geat boon to railroads.)

Whatever brand of gasoline you buy likely comes from the same local distributor. Each brand's specific additive package and ethanol are all blended into the tank truck, and the gasoline is usually piped from a local refinery that produces the specific gasoline blend required for the EPA area you are in.

A lot of refineries are no longer owned by the major oil companies. They were sold off two or three decades ago because refining profit margins are thin relative to exploration and development. These non-affliated refineries (and refineries owned by the majors) refine gasoline that meets EPA specs for the area they serve and distributors mix the specific additive package for each brand along with the ethanol.

That's how the refining and distribution end of the petroleum industry works. Like engine oil, gasoline is pretty much a generic product in the area you live, regardless of brand.

E10 has about 3 percent less energy content than straight gasoline, so 3 percent lower fuel economy is typically what you see. That's about one MPG on a 30 MPG car. On a car that gets 15-20, it would be tough to measure the difference.

Duke

[Ronald L.]

Re: Mix-I-Go Concentrate Gasoline and Ethanol Treatment

Duke,
Chem 101 ROH is a short for for an alcohol. I agree with what you are saying as far as gasoline distribution in that as you explained, is how it has operated.

Now what I can't answer is a 17mpg avg drop to 15 MPG when filling up at a BP. And this has been very repeatable.

[Michael W.]

Re: Mix-I-Go Concentrate Gasoline and Ethanol Treatment

Their pump is cheating you, it's the Brits getting back at you yanks for throwing perfectly good tea in the harbour. How's that for a conspiracy theory?

[Clem Z.]

Re: Mix-I-Go Concentrate Gasoline and Ethanol Treatment

Duke,
Chem 101 ROH is a short for for an alcohol. I agree with what you are saying as far as gasoline distribution in that as you explained, is how it has operated.

Now what I can't answer is a 17mpg avg drop to 15 MPG when filling up at a BP. And this has been very repeatable.

the mrs 2004 impala with a 3800 engine lost about 10% in MPG since 10% ethanol became std. before i could pull 30+ on trip to fla. but now i can only pull 28

[Michael F.]

Re: Mix-I-Go Concentrate Gasoline and Ethanol Treatment

only greenie pukes like al gore (inventor of internet) govt and states producing corn want ethenol, us govt subsidizes farm states to produce it, it is also corrosive. my motto...buy what you want or like, want to kill off corn gas, people quit buying it, won't be produced no matter what govt does except if they pass law mandating it we can have fast, high mpg, low polution cars without ethenol.

[Terry M.]

Re: Mix-I-Go Concentrate Gasoline and Ethanol Treatment

only greenie pukes like al gore (inventor of internet) govt and states producing corn want ethenol, us govt subsidizes farm states to produce it, it is also corrosive. my motto...buy what you want or like, want to kill off corn gas, people quit buying it, won't be produced no matter what govt does except if they pass law mandating it we can have fast, high mpg, low polution cars without ethenol.

Mike,
You ought to read the EPA link that Duke posted. Ethanol IS already mandated in "attainment areas", and has been for years. Look for a map of the "attainment areas." They may be greater than many think.

Among the greatest supporters of Ethanol for fuel is agribusinesses like Monsanto and Archer Daniels Midland. Some support the inclusion of Ethanol in our fuel under the banner of developing energy independence, but this bent ignores the decreased fuel mileage requiring more fuel to get from point A to B. Their belief is we can gain energy independence by using more fuel.