Grand sport (1963) race car headers

[Jerry G.]

One of this winters projects is to replace the headers on the race car. One of the problems with headers you can purchase for racing and side outlet has a clearance problem where the collector pipe goes under the frame. Mine are pretty beat up from years of racing and the dip in turn 6 at monterey didn't help. so, I was looking for ideas and I see in a photo of the old Grand sports they look like they have plenty of clearance and they were shorter and smaller diameter. any of you have details on the Grand Sport header design. ie tube length, diameter, collector diameter and any fabrication details. i know the frames are different but i'm looking for ideas here and I've got a new TIG welder to play with all winter. any photos would be great. jerry

[Bruce B.]

Re: Grand sport (1963) race car headers

Jerry,
Jerry Stahl from York, PA has an intimate knowledge of the Grand Sport headers. I believe he built some of them.
Try contacting him as he has records of everything he was involved in and manufactured. He is a great guy to talk with also.
Google Stahl Headers for contact info.
Good luck,
Bruce B

[Jerry G.]

Re: Grand sport (1963) race car headers

I'll give him a call. I have Stauls on it now and they don't solve this problem.

[Jim L.]

Re: Grand sport (1963) race car headers

Here's what you are looking for, Jerry:



1-3/4" tubes feeding into a flat-ish 3" collector.

At the point where the tubes pass under the upward-angled frame (tube, in the case of Grand Sports), they are routed such each tube is the same distance from the frame.

I'm sure there are more efficient header designs, but none that pass under the frame while providing as much ground clearance as these provide.

Jim

[Clem Z.]

Re: Grand sport (1963) race car headers

what about NASCAR type under the car headers ?? those kustom style side pipes were designed 40 years ago and i bet NASCAR venturi type headers would make more power.

[Jerry G.]

Re: Grand sport (1963) race car headers

Jim ..Thats what I'm talking about. you have an email note
Clem, the corvette that won the race at monterey uses nascar style undercar headers and exhaust. unusual sound but FAST. My car is completly belly panned so I'm not sure undercar will work. i will check it out.
Anybody know a good simulation program to check design of headers J.im has shown. i really like that solution

[Duke W.]

Re: Grand sport (1963) race car headers

By NASCAR headers, Clem, do you mean 4 into 1s with relatively short collector pipes that that exit into an "exhaust box" in the center of the car with the two tail pipes out of the exhaust box to the RH side of the car in front of the wheelwell? The entrance to the exhaust box is essentially the end of the "tuned" length.

Given the high rev range the unrestricted engines run, 7000-9500, shorter primary and collector pipes are called for than Jerry's engine that runs a maximum of about 7500, and I don't see how there would be room for such a system under a C2.

The Grand Sport headers are compromised because they are not equal length.

Jerry's current headers have too small primary pipes for his power level. They should be 1 7/8 - 2" OD (assuming .060" wall thickness), 32-34" long with 3 - 3.5" tailpipes, and a "venturi" collector is probably a good idea, but check with Stahl.

Engine Analyzer allows one to vary primary pipe diameter and length and collector pipe length.

Duke

[Clem Z.]

Re: Grand sport (1963) race car headers

By NASCAR headers, Clem, do you mean 4 into 1s with relatively short collector pipes that that exit into an "exhaust box" in the center of the car with the two tail pipes out of the exhaust box to the RH side of the car in front of the wheelwell? The entrance to the exhaust box is essentially the end of the "tuned" length.

Given the high rev range the unrestricted engines run, 7000-9500, shorter primary and collector pipes are called for than Jerry's engine that runs a maximum of about 7500, and I don't see how there would be room for such a system under a C2.

The Grand Sport headers are compromised because they are not equal length.

Jerry's current headers have too small primary pipes for his power level. They should be 1 7/8 - 2" OD (assuming .060" wall thickness), 32-34" long with 3 - 3.5" tailpipes, and a "venturi" collector is probably a good idea, but check with Stahl.

Engine Analyzer allows one to vary primary pipe diameter and length and collector pipe length.

Duke

i was referring to 4 into 2 into 1 with a venturi collector

[Duke W.]

Re: Grand sport (1963) race car headers

I don't think I'm familiar with that design, but my observations as stated above are limited to when they are flying through the air upside down.

Duke

[Clem Z.]

Re: Grand sport (1963) race car headers

I don't think I'm familiar with that design, but my observations as stated above are limited to when they are flying through the air upside down.

Duke

here you go. i have never used them but i have heard that they work well when designed for the engine they are used on

[Dick W.]

Re: Grand sport (1963) race car headers

I can't remember the GS headers, but the LeMans L/88 had equal length headers into a flattened collector with a 4" side pipe.

[Clem Z.]

Re: Grand sport (1963) race car headers

here you go http://www.racingicons.com/gs/004/004-23.htm

[Scott P.]

Re: Grand sport (1963) race car headers

Jerry, sometimes these can give you additional ground clearance with side exit headers. Scott

http://www.flowmastermufflers.com/se...ub=66&sc1=Race Products&sc2=Scavenger Header Collector&sc3=&sc4=

[Jerry G.]

Re: Grand sport (1963) race car headers

WOW, lots of good information. Is there a GURU of header design that can take all this information and give me a recomendation that I can fab up?

[Dick W.]

Re: Grand sport (1963) race car headers

WOW, lots of good information. Is there a GURU of header design that can take all this information and give me a recomendation that I can fab up?

Someone told me that the guy that was Kustom (made headers for GM) is somewhere doing headers again. Clementine might know who and where.

Also, I think that Kevin McKay had a set of headers made, with the flattened collectors, for the LeMans L/88. You might want to contact him and see who did it.