How much is too much when polishing lacquer?

[Greg L.]

Well I finally got around to trying my luck with polishing and for the most part it's working out okay. The lacquer is just over a year old so it's well set-up.

I'm being fairly carefull and only using the slow speed which is 600 rpm and all the edges are being done by hand. The polish is Meguier's SOLO cut and polish cream and I have a foam pad.

What I'm wondering about is how do you know when to stop? I seem to be getting some shine but I have very little lacquer experience so I'm not sure if I've polished it enough or if I need to do more. The pics actualy make the panels look better than they are if that makes sense. Compared to my 60 in the back ground it doesn't seem like I've polished enough but maybe that's what lacquer is supposed to look like.

I know I can wet sand with 1500 and then polish and it would come out really nice but it's obviously metalic(no clear) and I'm going for the factory look so I don't know if wet sanding is an good option.

So what do you guys think, is this good enough or do I need to go farther?

Thanks again.

[Patrick H.]

Re: How much is too much when polishing lacquer?

Below is a picture of the left front fender of my car. Your t-tops and upper surfaces appear to me to have a bit too much orange peel. Mine are quite smooth. Notice that the fender on my car is closer to what yours is, so I don't think you have far to go there.

Patrick

[Michael G.]

Re: How much is too much when polishing lacquer?

So what do you guys think, is this good enough or do I need to go farther?

Thanks again.

Like Pat am seeing a great deal of orange peel....too much. Good luster but no shine. This will be a slow process of sand and polish, subjective as well.Many of us will offer varied opinions. 1500 will offer very litte cut to get where your (IMO) paint needs to be. 600 rpm will offer very little cutting and or polishing impact. Might step to 1200 paper then migrate up to 1500 then 2000 possibly.....carefully up the rpms. Believe there's still plenty there to work off and still offer an "orange peel" effect.

[Bill M.]

Re: How much is too much when polishing lacquer?

Sanding a metallic paint is not a good idea. I didn't sand all the orange peel off my Milano Maroon and still got a little mottling. If you're going to experiment, do it under the character line on the body, not on the top or top surfaces.

[Jim T.]

Re: How much is too much when polishing lacquer?

Greg I repainted my 1970 Donnybrooke Green coupe about 21 years ago with Dupont lacquer. After a few months of drying time I started wet color sanding with Dupont 1200 sanding paper. Next continued with wet color sanding using Dupont 1500 sanding paper. I followed the wet color sanding using Dupont 101S lacquer rubbing compound. This Dupont lacquer rubbing compound is a not as abrasive as what you can buy off the shelf in auto parts stores. All this hand only preparation resulted in a finish that still looks very good today.
After the rubbing compound process was finished I used Meguires #7.

Dupont at the time I painted my car published refinishing books that I bought to guide me through the process of painting my 1970 and finishing the new lacquer.

[Pat M.]

Re: How much is too much when polishing lacquer?

Sanding a metallic paint is not a good idea. I didn't sand all the orange peel off my Milano Maroon and still got a little mottling. If you're going to experiment, do it under the character line on the body, not on the top or top surfaces.

Yup. I would only polish to avoid mottling.

[Greg L.]

Re: How much is too much when polishing lacquer?

Well just my luck. This lacquer has fought me every step of the way going back several years when I finally decided on it. I hoped that I would get lucky and just have to polish it but I guess I still have a ways to go...

Anyways, thanks for your thoughts and advice.

Now as far as the paint is concerned in regards to mottling, what's the difference between wet sanding and polishing? Either method is removing paint thus reducing the orange peel and giving me a flatter surface. I'd think that sanding is quicker and safer in that you can't burn the paint but what do I know?

Thoughts, suggestions, anyone want to buy a corvette, as is, where is, how is? just kidding.

[Michael G.]

Re: How much is too much when polishing lacquer?

[quote=Greg Linton (45455) what's the difference between wet sanding and polishing? quote]

Big difference in the processes. With wet sanding your removing material, smoothing up the surface. The polishing process is not as aggresive, meaning your now "fine tuning" the surface....your now polishing surface for it's final appearance. This is what I meant, it's a several step process......wet sand, compound, then polish as the final step. It's at that point where one ask's "is this the look I want regarding orange peel and shine. From what I can see your not there yet. Too much orange peel and not enough shine.

[Greg L.]

Re: How much is too much when polishing lacquer?

Thanks Micheal but I guess what I'm asking is why is there a greater chance of mottling with wet sanding as opposed to just polishing because either method is removing actual paint.

The only difference I can see is that wet sanding is quicker but then has to be polished and polishing is just that, and lots of it, and it takes longer, and if you're careless, might burn the paint...

I'm thinking carefull wet sanding is the safer way to go as long as there isn't an increased chance of mottling over just lots of polishing.

[Dan P.]

Re: How much is too much when polishing lacquer?

Polishing lacquer is different from polishing Urethane paint. It is a lot harder surface and takes a more aggressive compound .It was common to use A lot more aggressive sand paper also .That is why you are not seeing a lot of results. What you need to watch for as you are polishing with no clear is when you go through the different coats of paint.The metallic will become blotchy .Because each coat the metallic is not laying the same.Depending on how the paint was applied the metallic particles could laying down or standing up. When this happens the only way to correct it is to repaint. Back in the day painters clear coated the metallic colors and polished the clear. It may be wise to clear coat the car . It makes it a lot easier to repair if it happens to get scratched. Or if you happen to rub through.
Wet sanding you use sandpaper. Polishing is to remove the sand scratches from wet sanding and to shine the surface.

[Greg L.]

Re: How much is too much when polishing lacquer?

Here is round two...

The first pic has just the drivers side done as a comparison to my initial(polishing only) attempt.

Okay, so I lightly wet sanded the t-tops with 1500 until it looked like about half of the orange peel was leveled out then polished it as before but at about 900 rpm instead of 600.

The result was way better and outside or under normal light they look awesome but under fluoresent light it looks like the surface is full of tiny pits which I guess in effect it is now. Taking the "pits" out is easy, just wet sand and polish some more but then I will have pretty much a glass type finish which is what I don't want.

The third pics shows what I mean about the "pits" showing under fluoesent light.

I want that original orange peel look so what should be my next step? Would some type of wax be the next step to make the "pits" blend in? Or does it just need more polishing?

[Patrick H.]

Re: How much is too much when polishing lacquer?

but then I will have pretty much a glass type finish which is what I don't want.

I want that original orange peel look so what should be my next step?

Yoiu're gonna hate this but .... that original orange peel finish came from the way it was sprayed, not the way it was buffed, and the way yours was sprayed resulted in much more orange peel than what the factory had when they were done. In some ways you're a year too late to get the correct orange peel appearance. It's up to you to decide how far you want to take it with regard to smoothing it out at this point in order to try and mimic what St. Louis got from their spray technique.

I told you that you didn't want to hear that.

Patrick

[Greg L.]

Re: How much is too much when polishing lacquer?

You're right Patrick, I didn't want to hear that but it's par for the course with this car so thanks, I guess.

I don't know who all has followed my paint "journey" but it started several years(ha ha I actually misspelt years and it came out tears, how fitting) ago and it's been one set back after another. The guy that actually painted this car has done a few Top Flight cars with one that I know of that took ZERO points deduct so I figured I finally had the cat in the bag with having him spray it.

At this point I'm not sure what to do. Honestly I really hate this car because the fun is long gone and I just want to be done with it. My whole intent was to do it to the highest NCRS standards with the end result of a Duntov Award but I can see that that isn't going to happen anymore.

Enough ranting and feeling sorry about myself.....

If anyone can guide me in salvaging this paint to the way it should be then I'm all ears. maybe I should have just polished the heck out of it and not done any wet sanding? Maybe then the pits would blend in and look more like orange peel???

If there is nothing that can be done I'll just carry on the way I have been and hope for the best. The end result will be a non typical shine, lots of deducts on the paint and a inferior top coat in which case I should have just gone base coat/clear coat and been done a few years ago....Re-painting is not an option for me anymore.

Whoops, I'm starting to rant again. Time to go.

[Michael G.]

Re: How much is too much when polishing lacquer?

Maybe then the pits would blend in and look more like orange peel???

More unfortunate news Greg....if there are pits in the paint as you've stated, they most likely will not sand or compound out......much less polish out. Pits typically pass through most all layers of paint. Orange peel is quite different as it can be wet sanded, then compounded, then polished out to the subjectiveness of the painter or owner in this case.

The only cure(s) I know of is buzz down your existing paint job, seal, then recoat over top of existing paint job or strip and start over......both of which is not an option for you. Have you spoke with the painter regarding his paint job?

[Greg L.]

Re: How much is too much when polishing lacquer?

The only cure(s) I know of is buzz down your existing paint job, seal, then recoat over top of existing paint job or strip and start over......both of which is not an option for you. Have you spoke with the painter regarding his paint job?

Thanks Michael, I'm on vacation now for about two weeks and on the drive out, talking to the painter did cross my mind so I'll do that when I get back. He lives 12 hours from me so I'll have to send him pics. It would be interesting to hear what he has to say and how to fix this because I'm sure the problem is at my end. Given his reputation I find it really hard to believe that he "blew" my paint job.

As for the pits maybe that's not the right term. Obviously when you partialy wet sand an uneven surface(orange peel) you level off the high points and make them flat. If you only sand down partialy you will still have the low spots and that's what I'm calling pits. Maybe depressions is more like it....

My thinking is if only the very tops of the bumps were wet sanded down then it would be easier for the polisher to round the edges of the "pits" and leave it with that orange peel look. That's why I'm thinking that maybe I sanded too far? I sanded too far and now they "look like pits".....