Taper Roller Bearings

[Wes S.]

Does anyone know where I can find a tapered roller bearing prelaod guide?

[Joe L.]

Re: Taper Roller Bearings

Taper rollers are not designed to be preloaded.

Dick------


Yup. And, they'll likely fail rapidly if pre-loaded.

[Terry M.]

Re: Taper Roller Bearings

Dick------


Yup. And, they'll likely fail rapidly if pre-loaded.

So then how then does the pinion bearing pre-load system work?

And I recently saw a system that sets up front wheel bearings like on C2 & C3r Corvettes with a spacer between the inner and outer wheel bearing that eliminates ALL play between the bearings. No pre-load, but the bearing spacer (similar to the crush sleeve in the pinion, but it is solid not crush) is shimmed to almost zero clearance, then the axle nut is torqued to 40 ft/lbs. The system I saw was designed for folks who auto cross the B-body RWD cars (Caprice, Impala, & Roadmaster). Throwing these heavy cars around an autocross track stresses components greatly and the elimination of the play in the front bearings is getting rave reviews from the auto crossers.

[Joe L.]

Re: Taper Roller Bearings

So then how then does the pinion bearing pre-load system work?

And I recently saw a system that sets up front wheel bearings like on C2 & C3r Corvettes with a spacer between the inner and outer wheel bearing that eliminates ALL play between the bearings. No pre-load, but the bearing spacer (similar to the crush sleeve in the pinion, but it is solid not crush) is shimmed to almost zero clearance, then the axle nut is torqued to 40 ft/lbs. The system I saw was designed for folks who auto cross the B-body RWD cars (Caprice, Impala, & Roadmaster). Throwing these heavy cars around an autocross track stresses components greatly and the elimination of the play in the front bearings is getting rave reviews from the auto crossers.

Terry-----


I do not understand how the pinion bearing system gets away with a pre-load.

In a system like you describe for the modified front wheel bearings, there is no pre-load. It sounds to me from what you describe that the system results in a bearing clearance of between 0 and .001"

[Terry M.]

Re: Taper Roller Bearings

Terry-----


I do not understand how the pinion bearing system gets away with a pre-load.

In a system like you describe for the modified front wheel bearings, there is no pre-load. It sounds to me from what you describe that the system results in a bearing clearance of between 0 and .001"

Gee, I am so disappointed. I had hoped to finally get an explanation for the pre-load in the Hodgkis pinion bearing system. I do know that the pre-load is not very much, but it is still enough to keep the inner bearing races from rotating against the pinion shaft.

Yes, Joe the system I described has no pre-load. The spacer is shimmed to result in the kind of dimensions you suggest. They even selectively reduce the shim thickness by using abrasive paper on a glass surface. The initial installation requires quite a but of careful work and much patience. It is not for the ham-handed, but the reviews from the auto-cross community are glowing. One of the big advantages is the reduction in bearing failures due to the inner races rotating against the knuckle (spindle).

Of course a rational person would not chose to throw something the bulk of the RWD B-body around an auto-cross course, so perhaps the reviewers are a little off kilter to start with. There IS all sorts of fun to be had with internal combustion vehicles.

[Joe L.]

Re: Taper Roller Bearings

Gee, I am so disappointed. I had hoped to finally get an explanation for the pre-load in the Hodgkis pinion bearing system. I do know that the pre-load is not very much, but it is still enough to keep the inner bearing races from rotating against the pinion shaft.

Yes, Joe the system I described has no pre-load. The spacer is shimmed to result in the kind of dimensions you suggest. They even selectively reduce the shim thickness by using abrasive paper on a glass surface. The initial installation requires quite a but of careful work and much patience. It is not for the ham-handed, but the reviews from the auto-cross community are glowing. One of the big advantages is the reduction in bearing failures due to the inner races rotating against the knuckle (spindle).

Of course a rational person would not chose to throw something the bulk of the RWD B-body around an auto-cross course, so perhaps the reviewers are a little off kilter to start with. There IS all sorts of fun to be had with internal combustion vehicles.

Terry-----


The same, basic system for the front wheel bearings can be used for 1963-82 Corvettes. By shimming and/or surface grinding of the tanged washer, the front bearing end play can be held to between 0 and .001" with the cotter pin installed. Otherwise, the clearance will fall to somewhere in the 0.001 to 0.008 range by design of the components. GM and Timken engineers will tell you that anywhere in that range is satisfactory.

[Barry H.]

Re: Taper Roller Bearings

Terry, Mostly all metal working machines use tapered roller bearings that are preloaded in the spindles. Lathes, Milling Machines, Boring Mills, & even Drill Presses. All are kept from overheating by a constant flow of oil directly to the bearings during operation. Similar to how the preloaded pinion bearings in a differential are cooled by the constant flow of oil from the roating ring gear, thru a special channel cast in the housing.
Barry Holmes #940

[Terry M.]

Re: Taper Roller Bearings

Thank you Barry. That 'splains it at least somewhat. So in the end a slight pre-load of tapered bearings is not bad if there is sufficient cooling in the design.

[Dick W.]

Re: Taper Roller Bearings

Oops! I was a thinkin' 'bout wheel bearings

[Terry M.]

Re: Taper Roller Bearings

Oops! I was a thinkin' 'bout wheel bearings

I didn't help by mixing in wheel bearings with pinion bearings. differetn situation alhtough for C2 and newer they are both tapered roller bearings.

[Duke W.]

Re: Taper Roller Bearings

Terry-----


The same, basic system for the front wheel bearings can be used for 1963-82 Corvettes. By shimming and/or surface grinding of the tanged washer, the front bearing end play can be held to between 0 and .001" with the cotter pin installed. Otherwise, the clearance will fall to somewhere in the 0.001 to 0.008 range by design of the components. GM and Timken engineers will tell you that anywhere in that range is satisfactory.

That's how I do mine, shooting for about .001" freeplay. It doesn't take that much effort, and I think the snug fit improves steering precision.

My '88 Mercedes 190E 2.6 has a set screw on the nut, so you can set the clearance at a specified value and the spec is really tight - something like .0002 - .0008", which is tough to measure!

Duke

[Michael H.]

Re: Taper Roller Bearings

The difference between zero/preloaded pinion bearings and "loose" wheel bearings is the lubricant.
Wheel bearings are lubricated with grease and pinion bearings are lubricated with oil.
The oil lubrication method has a constant supply of fresh oil but tapered roller bearings that use grease require a clearance to re-distribute the lubricant.
As Joe Lucia mentioned, running tapered roller bearings that are lubricated with grease at zero clearance will destroy the bearing.

The difference between .001" and, say, .004" will not have any effect on the way the car handles.

[Domenic T.]

Re: Taper Roller Bearings

I have found pre load much different in certain applications where temp is involved, expansion/contraction.

My aluminum case on my motorclcle expands differently than the steel crank and it is pre loaded to allow for the growth of the aluminum case vs the steel crank.

I think one needs to follow the mtc manual the builder puts out.

DOM