1958 Fueely - Dies shortly after Starting

[Ken P.]

Hi,

My 1958 fuelly starts, runs smoothly for 30 seconds- a minute and then dies. The car has been sitting over the winter with few starts. Any idea what may be wrong and how to fix it. I know little about fuel injection. Thanks, Ken

[John D.]

Re: 1958 Fueely - Dies shortly after Starting

HI Ken, If your fuel car sat over the winter with few starts and it had/has ethanol in it then it's probably gummed up. I assume you have a typical 58 FI which is the 7014900 or 4900R and not the left over 57 FI's.
Lets start from the beginning. Is gas gettinginto the fuel injection unit? Is the drive cable going to the distributor OK. Sometimes a fuel injection will start and run a few seconds with a broken drive cable. Take the cable out of the housing. Leave the housing off. Then put the cable into the pump and see if you can turn the pump with your cable in your hand. If not then the hi-pressure pump is froze up. If it's OK do a crude but effective test. Get a buddy to help you on this on. Disconnect a nozzle line aka the small line that is attached to a nozzle by a 5/16 nozzle nut. Get a small glass jar or maybe a small tin can. Put it under the line and have someone turn the key in the start position. See if you have a steady stream of fuel coming out the nozzle line. You might want to pull the coil wire to distributor cap for this test.
If you don't have nice flow of fuel then you know you have issues with the fuel injection.
Issues could be stuck needle and seat under the float, Could be a stuck needle/check valve in the spider assembly that feeds the nozzles. Could be ignition problems also but I doubt it. Todays wonderful fuel has a shelf life of 4 months max.
Cheater: Dump some good fuel injection cleaner in the gas tank and see if that helps. Otherwise the FI unit is going to have to come apart.
I forgot to also say the nozzles could be clogged up too. Those nozzle screens are really little. If you clean the nozzles make sure you do not lose an orifice/disc. Read the Corvette Servicing Guide ST12 manual. Read the trouble shooting section. Good luck, John

[Loren L.]

Re: 1958 Fueely - Dies shortly after Starting

If it was me and I had a known good coil and ballast resistor sitting around, I would replace those items - one at a time - and see if anything changes.

[Ken P.]

Re: 1958 Fueely - Dies shortly after Starting

Hi John, Thanks for the detailed information - it certainly helped. The drive cable to the distributor is sheared right at the base of the distributor. How do I get the cable off of the high pressure pump - there appears to be a few screws holding it in place - is that what comes off to replace the cable? Thanks, Ken

[Ken P.]

Re: 1958 Fueely - Dies shortly after Starting

Thanks Loren, Good to know - the first thing I uncovered was a broken distributor cable drive - once I fix that I'll see if I need to do others things as you suggest. Thanks for the info! Cheers, Ken

[John D.]

Re: 1958 Fueely - Dies shortly after Starting

Ken, The cable just pulls out of the high pressure pump. Screws holding it in place you say? You do not need to remove the hi-pressure pump to remove the cable. You do not need to remove any screws on the distributor adapter either.
Check to see if your hi-pressure pump turns freely. Sounds like the pump may be stuck. Don't waste a new cable expecting it to do the job if the pump has issues. I may have mentioned that it doesn't take much today for a gear pump to seize up because of bad fuel. John

[Ken P.]

Re: 1958 Fueely - Dies shortly after Starting

Hi John, Thanks - the cable came straight out as you indicated and the pump is frozen up. Is it something I should/could rebuild or should I send the car to someone who knows about fuel injection? Cheers, Ken

[Loren L.]

Re: 1958 Fueely - Dies shortly after Starting

If the pump was frozen, how did you manage to get it to run repeatedly for 30 seconds at a time?

[Ken P.]

Re: 1958 Fueely - Dies shortly after Starting

Hi Loren, I don't know - the cable broke and the pump does not turn but it will start and run for about 30 seconds every time I crank it. So how would it get fuel?? Ken

[Clem Z.]

Re: 1958 Fueely - Dies shortly after Starting

hey JD would pulling the pump and soaking it in KROIL free it up ???

[Paul Y.]

Re: 1958 Fueely - Dies shortly after Starting

It's pretty easy to remove and disassemble the pump and clean it up. Mark where the gears are to put back in the same place. It looks like a miniature oil pump. It is pretty easy to blue print it also. All you need is the one gasket unless you are changing the seal on the shaft. It gets a little more complicated at that point but really not very difficult. The only way to take the mystery out of it is to do it.

[John D.]

Re: 1958 Fueely - Dies shortly after Starting

I don't agree that rebuilding a 57 to 65 hi-pressure pump is a job for an untrained novice. Reason being is that if you mess up the pump then you are out mega bucks for a replacement.
It's not a simple matter of taking the pump apart, cleaning it and putting it back together unless you have prior experience.
#1. You are marking parts that you have no idea if the guy before you assembled it correctly in the first place.
#2. If you don't get the center spacer of the pump centered on the drive gear and idler gear and put the pump together like that they the gears are going to dig into the spacer and tear it up. You will then have a fuel pressure problem.
#3. Here Is a biggie. If you destroy the carbon bushings while attempting to remove the pump seal then expect your pump to be down for quite awhile. Takes a lot of experience and the proper fixture to be able to install new carbon bushings and then ream them to size.
$4. The directions in the ST12 manual, etc tell you to use a certain size tap to remove the seals. Well that's history as todays seals are constructed differently and I whistle dixie when I am able to get a seal out using any size tap at all. Takes a special tool to remove the pump seal.
#5. Score the cylinder wall of the pump when you are attempting to remove the seal with a chiesel then the pump is trashed.
Someone out there is removing pump seals with a chiesel. Therefore scoring the cylinder wall and makes up for it by using epoxy to install the new seal.
You haven't lived until you try and take one of those mothers apart.
And the list goes on. Just a simple little pump you say. Well it is but it's they are a pain to rebuild. When I do my restos the last thing I do is the pump as it's not my favorite job to do.
Now if you have a pump that bubba has never taken apart then those are a piece of cake. If you see a pump that has lead in two of the allen head cap screws that hold the pump together and the lead contains the initials of an old RP workmen then you have it made.
But todays seals are a tad oversize and difficult to get out. A typical CR buna rubber pump seal that we have had for 30 years isn't worth a crap. Why??? Because it's not compatible with ethanol. Whew!!!
But we have that situation undercontrol.
I find it increasingly difficult to maintain my policy of keeping NCRS separate from my FI Business. I am not on here to drum up business. I especially are not here tonight to get your hi-pressure pump work and would prefer someone else do it as I can't make minimum wage undoing butcher work.
I am here to help the members as much as possible as I am going to be 69 in March and how many years do I have left. I have amassed an extreme amount of knowledge that you will not read anywhere in the last 50 years.
So ask me anything you want and rest assure that I will help. Just don't ask about casting refinishing. See you in Carlisle God willing. John
P.S. Read Clems Post about Aero Kroil. It's truely amazing and should work on the pump without taking it apart. Just remove the pump noting that the screw in the 9:00 position is 10-32 x 1/2" whereas the other 4 screws are 5/8" long. Just squirt the aero kroil (or el cheepo penetrating oil) in the pump and you may break it loose. It's probably gummed up with todays wonderful fuel.
Rumor has it that in the near future a new pump gasket will be available that is made from viton rubber. Although the gasket will be major bucks I for one am truely excited about it as the ethanol is playing havoc with that gasket especially if the pump surfaces and fuel meter surfaces are not 100% flat.

[Don H.]

Re: 1958 Fueely - Dies shortly after Starting

John, I understand there is a repro pump available. Have you seen it & is it any good? Thanks for you great advice offered here. Don H.

[Clem Z.]

Re: 1958 Fueely - Dies shortly after Starting

are these new repos or just rebuilds ??? http://www.parts123.com/0000050b/351..._nd-351150.htm

[George J.]

Re: 1958 Fueely - Dies shortly after Starting

John,
you need to write all this down, and publish a book. Now, about that casting finish........

George
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