66 J-56 Proportioning Valve

[Stephen C.]

I had the proportioning valve on my car rebuilt by White Post. I installed it on the car and it was fine during the summer last year. However, when I went to pull it out of storage this spring I noticed a puddle under the car. I checked it and found it was brake fluid. I then checked the master cylinder and found the rear reservoir was nearly empty. I ultimately found that the rear plug on the porportioning valve was leaking. I called around trying to find a rebuild kit for this and no one had one. I was told by the people at Shelby American in Milwaukee that these units were not supposed to be rebuilt.

This was according to Kelsey Hayes. The original units were assembled in a dirt/dust free atmosphere and that any speck of dirt or dust would cause this unit to leak or malfunction. Has anyone else ever heard this supposed fact?

I did find an O-ring kit for the valve but if I tear it apart I would have to be in a totally dirt free enviroment to put in the new seals. Has anybody else ever tried doing this on their own?

Thanks for any input.

Steve

[Joe R.]

Re: 66 J-56 Proportioning Valve

I had the proportioning valve on my car rebuilt by White Post. I installed it on the car and it was fine during the summer last year. However, when I went to pull it out of storage this spring I noticed a puddle under the car. I checked it and found it was brake fluid. I then checked the master cylinder and found the rear reservoir was nearly empty. I ultimately found that the rear plug on the porportioning valve was leaking. I called around trying to find a rebuild kit for this and no one had one. I was told by the people at Shelby American in Milwaukee that these units were not supposed to be rebuilt.

This was according to Kelsey Hayes. The original units were assembled in a dirt/dust free atmosphere and that any speck of dirt or dust would cause this unit to leak or malfunction. Has anyone else ever heard this supposed fact?

I did find an O-ring kit for the valve but if I tear it apart I would have to be in a totally dirt free enviroment to put in the new seals. Has anybody else ever tried doing this on their own?

Thanks for any input.

Steve

Steve,

Someone with no knowledge has spun a tail that is not reasonable in the brake world. The valve does not have to be sterile.

Yes, the factory that first made these valves may have had a dust free inviroment for assembly.

First, I would send it back to White Post and ask them to warranty their work. They are a very reputable company and will work with you.

Secondly, if that doesn't work (I'm sure it will) just rebuild the valve with the O-ring kit you have.

JR

[Stephen C.]

Re: 66 J-56 Proportioning Valve

Joe,

Thanks for the reply. However, I am not able to send it back to White Post. They will not warranty if you use Dot 5. I had so much trouble with my brake system rusting up from Dot 3 that I decided to change. Went to Dot 5, so I am stuck fixing this unit on my own. As I said I have the
O-ring kit so I may tackle this thing on my own and hope it works.

I thought that the song and dance I got from Shelby American was a little suspect but one never knows for sure until they ask. I was just trying to find out if anyone on this form has attempted to rebuild one of these units on their own and been successful at it.

Steve

Steve,

Someone with no knowledge has spun a tail that is not reasonable in the brake world. The valve does not have to be sterile.

Yes, the factory that first made these valves may have had a dust free inviroment for assembly.

First, I would send it back to White Post and ask them to warranty their work. They are a very reputable company and will work with you.

Secondly, if that doesn't work (I'm sure it will) just rebuild the valve with the O-ring kit you have.

JR

[Grant W.]

Re: 66 J-56 Proportioning Valve

Hi Steve
Here is the kit. It cost about 30.00 However back at work our maintenance guys has these O ring kits. I can check and see if one fits as per my pen pointing to the Kit by Scott Drake.
I had once sent 12 J56 proportion valve to be repaired by White post and did a great job, sold them all and now I have to send another 6 to get restored. I only need one but what the heck I started to collecting them
You can send me an email at grantwong@telus.net and I will see on Monday what I can find. If they have it I'll just send it to you.
Hope this helps.
Grant

[Stephen C.]

Re: 66 J-56 Proportioning Valve

Grant,

Thanks for the reply. I did get the Scott Drake kit already. Right now I am just trying to figure out if I can tear into this proportioning valve myself to replace the seals/O-rings. It would seem that I should be able to if White Post does it in their shop. I don't have anything bad to say about Billy at White Post. They did a great job on the MC and the PP. The PP just leaked for some reason and I just want to correct that. At least now I know where I can get another one if I need it.

Steve

Hi Steve
Here is the kit. It cost about 30.00 However back at work our maintenance guys has these O ring kits. I can check and see if one fits as per my pen pointing to the Kit by Scott Drake.
I had once sent 12 J56 proportion valve to be repaired by White post and did a great job, sold them all and now I have to send another 6 to get restored. I only need one but what the heck I started to collecting them
You can send me an email at grantwong@telus.net and I will see on Monday what I can find. If they have it I'll just send it to you.
Hope this helps.
Grant

[Clem Z.]

Re: 66 J-56 Proportioning Valve

Grant,

Thanks for the reply. I did get the Scott Drake kit already. Right now I am just trying to figure out if I can tear into this proportioning valve myself to replace the seals/O-rings. It would seem that I should be able to if White Post does it in their shop. I don't have anything bad to say about Billy at White Post. They did a great job on the MC and the PP. The PP just leaked for some reason and I just want to correct that. At least now I know where I can get another one if I need it.

Steve

even if it is not under warranty why not send it back to white post for a rebuild but my question would be,will this happen again with the brake fluid you are using.

[Larry M.]

Re: 66 J-56 Proportioning Valve

even if it is not under warranty why not send it back to white post for a rebuild but my question would be,will this happen again with the brake fluid you are using.

I did a quick check on EPDM o-rings versus DOT 3/4 and DOT 5 brake fluid. Steve can check with White Post, but I believe just about everyone uses EPDM or EPR (similar) material for these o-rings.

This material is rated #1 (VERY GOOD) for both of these brake fluids.......so there should not be any compatibility issues. http://www.columbiaerd.com/epdm_orings.php

I normally use the Parker O-ring Guide for this type of info, but the data from the company shown above should be acceptable.

Larry

[Stephen C.]

Re: 66 J-56 Proportioning Valve

Clem,

Your guess is as good as mine. Not sure why it would happen again. The viscosity of silicon fluid is (I believe) a little heavier than Dot 3 but I could be wrong. Silicon should not affect rubber O-rings. Not sure why it would leak by if this is the case. All White Post would do is replace all the seal/O-rings again and I think I can do that from here.

Steve

even if it is not under warranty why not send it back to white post for a rebuild but my question would be,will this happen again with the brake fluid you are using.

[Clem Z.]

Re: 66 J-56 Proportioning Valve

Clem,

Your guess is as good as mine. Not sure why it would happen again. The viscosity of silicon fluid is (I believe) a little heavier than Dot 3 but I could be wrong. Silicon should not affect rubber O-rings. Not sure why it would leak by if this is the case. All White Post would do is replace all the seal/O-rings again and I think I can do that from here.

Steve

when you take it apart check carefully the condition of the "O" ring to see if you can determine what caused the problem.

[Grant W.]

Re: 66 J-56 Proportioning Valve

I had the proportioning valve on my car rebuilt by White Post. I installed it on the car and it was fine during the summer last year. However, when I went to pull it out of storage this spring I noticed a puddle under the car. I checked it and found it was brake fluid. I then checked the master cylinder and found the rear reservoir was nearly empty. I ultimately found that the rear plug on the porportioning valve was leaking. I called around trying to find a rebuild kit for this and no one had one. I was told by the people at Shelby American in Milwaukee that these units were not supposed to be rebuilt.

This was according to Kelsey Hayes. The original units were assembled in a dirt/dust free atmosphere and that any speck of dirt or dust would cause this unit to leak or malfunction. Has anyone else ever heard this supposed fact?

I did find an O-ring kit for the valve but if I tear it apart I would have to be in a totally dirt free enviroment to put in the new seals. Has anybody else ever tried doing this on their own?

Thanks for any input.

Steve

Hi Steve
You can replace the O ring your self. It would be much easier and safer to take off the Prop valve.

With the prop valve in a vice (hold it with some thick Cardboard so you don't put marks on it.

You then tackle the front portion of the valve.

Loosen the large front ring that holds the Barrel(with threads) then the barrel will screw off easily, then count how many full circle turns for the large barrel bolt to come off. When installing it back reverse the process this way you get the approximate same brake pressure.

Once the front is off it releases the pressure from inside as the large spring inside is not engaged.

Do Not start FIRST at the back where the 2 pin ring is.

Then you work from the back using a 2 pin type of plyers. You will see the 2 pin ring at the back. You have to squeeze the ring clip together and it will come out.
Then a back plug will pop out and behind it is the O ring. If the back cap won't pop out then take a 4 inch bolt and place it inside the front where the barrel is taken off and lightly tap it and the back cap will come out. Don't wack it. Just a light tap. You don't want the inside valve to go flying across the room.
Replace the O ring, put the back plug back in.Put the 2 pin ring back on.
Install the front barrel and recount how many full circles it took to take off and reverse the process when installing. Then I would firmly by hand tighten the Large lock washer,
Then install your prop valve back on. Add your brake oil, then you may have to adjust the barrel back or forth to get the correct pressure. If you feel it is right the first time when putting it all back together then just tighten the Lock washer.
I don't know if you have fresh cad plating on your parts but you must use a big cresent wrench for the large lock washer. Just carefully take off the parts as you don't want to scratch it.
Hope this helps.
Grant

[Dick W.]

Re: 66 J-56 Proportioning Valve

Joe,

Thanks for the reply. However, I am not able to send it back to White Post. They will not warranty if you use Dot 5.
Steve

Billy always had a hangup on not using DOT5. And even though he passed away a couple or so months ago, I doubt the bias will go away at White Post.

[Gary W.]

Re: 66 J-56 Proportioning Valve

I can walk you through the rebuild of one of these units. The guy that told you it had to be squeakie clean was mistaken. Yes, try to clean all the dirt from the components just like you would rebuilding a M/C or brake caliper. I was in the K/H plant that made them back in the 60's (Jackson MI) and it was far from clean. I worked for K/H (still do but now it's TRW). I might still have a couple of these valves laying around and can take some pictures on how to do it for you. The photo shows the adjustment setting for the end plug (3/4"), and the drawing shows the cross section so you can see what's inside.
PM me your email address if you need help.

Gary

ADDED Note: The end cap o'ring is a standard 2-119 size. Make sure you use EPDM elastomer.

[Stephen C.]

Re: 66 J-56 Proportioning Valve

Gary,

When you used this term I assume you are talking about all the seals and O-rings. "Make sure you use EPDM elastomer."

I do have the Scott Drake kit and I am assuming that these seals/O-rings are correct for this application.

Steve

[Gary W.]

Re: 66 J-56 Proportioning Valve

Gary,

When you used this term I assume you are talking about all the seals and O-rings. "Make sure you use EPDM elastomer."

I do have the Scott Drake kit and I am assuming that these seals/O-rings are correct for this application.

Steve

Correct, all the rubber parts should be EPDM. I'm sure the Scott Drake kit is correct. The reason I brought it up is that the o'ring on the cap is a standard size and available at the local hardware store. There is no telling what the ring would be made of. Material that works for "hydraulic fluid" (mineral oil base) will not be compatible with brake fluid.

Gary