Thermostat or not?

[James S.]

Restored original drivetrain on this 60 Vette, 283 Cubic inch, 4 BBL.

The gauges have not been restored, so not sure of accuracy. However, the gauge reads 200-205 while driving. I had the radiator recored with a core that has 30% more rows for better cooling and the engine still runs hotter that I like. Upon shut down a tad bit of anti-freeze begins to drip from the radiator cap from the pressure. These early cars don't have an over flow tube, so I'm wondering how to keep the engine cooler. When an engine over heats, the boiling water can't escape.

I was thinking some of the heat may be from a new engine, but with the 50 plus engines from 65-71 muscle cars I have restored / assembled, I have never had this problem.

Also, the after market lower radiator hose was leaking with new repop original style clamps utilized and I still have a very small leak there. I'm thinking of using later model clamps with the screw for tightening.

I was thinking about removing the thermostat as well to have better water flow. Any advice is much appreciated.

[David S.]

Re: Thermostat or not?

I put a Milodon 160 degree High Flow thermostat is all my cars. I have seen a significant temperature decrease in everything I've put it in, including our 66 L72.

Summit Racing item # 16400

Dave

[Joe R.]

Re: Thermostat or not?

James,

I would recommend verifying the actual temperature with an IR gun. The thermostat helps the block warm up quicker. Removing it won't make your car run cooler. It just determines at what temp water from the block starts to circulate through the radiator.

Joe

[David S.]

Re: Thermostat or not?

James,

I would recommend verifying the actual temperature with an IR gun. The thermostat helps the block warm up quicker. Removing it won't make your car run cooler. It just determines at what temp water from the block starts to circulate through the radiator.

Joe

That's a good point double checking with the IR gun. Along those same lines, make sure the temp sending unit is working properly.

Dave

[James S.]

Re: Thermostat or not?

James,

I would recommend verifying the actual temperature with an IR gun. The thermostat helps the block warm up quicker. Removing it won't make your car run cooler. It just determines at what temp water from the block starts to circulate through the radiator.

Joe

Joe,

Thx. What brand IR gun would you recommend?

Jim

[Joe R.]

Re: Thermostat or not?

Jim,

Here's a thread with an IR gun recommended by John Hinckley:

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...=2667&uid=8475

Joe

[Joe L.]

Re: Thermostat or not?

Restored original drivetrain on this 60 Vette, 283 Cubic inch, 4 BBL.

The gauges have not been restored, so not sure of accuracy. However, the gauge reads 200-205 while driving. I had the radiator recored with a core that has 30% more rows for better cooling and the engine still runs hotter that I like. Upon shut down a tad bit of anti-freeze begins to drip from the radiator cap from the pressure. These early cars don't have an over flow tube, so I'm wondering how to keep the engine cooler. When an engine over heats, the boiling water can't escape.

I was thinking some of the heat may be from a new engine, but with the 50 plus engines from 65-71 muscle cars I have restored / assembled, I have never had this problem.

Also, the after market lower radiator hose was leaking with new repop original style clamps utilized and I still have a very small leak there. I'm thinking of using later model clamps with the screw for tightening.

I was thinking about removing the thermostat as well to have better water flow. Any advice is much appreciated.

James-----


I would not remove the thermostat. However, I would use a Robertshaw thermostat. These allow for a higher flow. I use them exclusively.

A lower temperature thermostat will only provide a lower operating temperature if the cooling system is capable of maintaining that lower operating temperature. From the sounds of it, I greatly doubt that your system is capable of doing that so I don't see what a lower temperature thermostat is going to do for you.

[John H.]

Re: Thermostat or not?

Upon shut down a tad bit of anti-freeze begins to drip from the radiator cap from the pressure.

Jim -

Don't "top off" the radiator - you have to leave some space in the radiator to accommodate coolant expansion during heat-soak after shutdown. When it stops dripping after shutdown, it's found its "happy level".

[James S.]

Re: Thermostat or not?

Jim -

Don't "top off" the radiator - you have to leave some space in the radiator to accommodate coolant expansion during heat-soak after shutdown. When it stops dripping after shutdown, it's found its "happy level".

Thanks John, you answered my question. Wel, I bought a lazer temp guns from Sears; "Extech" brand. Has a year warranty and laser pointer, so off to the races again. I have another thread regarding the tranny in this beast; any help is appreciated.

Jim

[James S.]

Re: Thermostat or not?

James-----


I would not remove the thermostat. However, I would use a Robertshaw thermostat. These allow for a higher flow. I use them exclusively.

A lower temperature thermostat will only provide a lower operating temperature if the cooling system is capable of maintaining that lower operating temperature. From the sounds of it, I greatly doubt that your system is capable of doing that so I don't see what a lower temperature thermostat is going to do for you.

Thx Joe! I have a lazer temp gun now, so off to the races again!

Jim

[Wayne G.]

Re: Thermostat or not?

I just redid a original 60 FI top tank rad, rebuilt the water pump with a kit, added repo heater and rad hoses. Painted the rad all black(since it was that way to begin with) and kept the side supports natural alum. I purchased a 160 degree Mr Gasket performance hi-flow thermostat, fired her up today here in PA. It was about 90 degress, Idle I set at 800rpms... and she never got over over 190. I spent a good hour or so cleaning out the rad fins (air hose) and straightining them out by hand with a fine small screw driver.... Turned out nice. The rad is at least as old as 1968 and is spotless as was the motor, heater core and the water pump (51k on the clock) she was just dripping out one of the holes so had to fix... The only real dirt was on the radiator in and outlets under the hoses just a little ? calcium ? or whatever that white stuff is... buffed right off with a wire wheel...

I am quit happy with how she stayed cool.... I like to have the idle at 450 (its just sounds so sweet almost stalling but thumping over...) or so but after reading it should be 800 I gave it a try... sort of makes more sense also to have her running faster, better cooling and better oiling I would think...

The only thing that really bugs the heck out of the whole deal is that dang right angle hose and short heater hose and the fact the one hose fitting comes into the car? Man wonder who thought of that back in the day... I could not come to use the spring clips on the heater hoses and well had to use regular clamps... guess I am paranoid there... but oh well not a big deal.

I was going to go with a HI FLOW aftermarket water pump and just keep the original off the car, but after seeing how hard it is to change, motor mount bracket and all, decided to just redo the original...

I read up on all the folks talking about antifreeze types, but just decided to do as I have always done. Drain, flush with the garden hose about 4 times... Then rinse system with straight antifreeze of extended prestone, I let it get hot and run thru a bit... then drain it out, then refill with 1 gallon of antifreeze split between two 1 gallon jugs and mixed with distilled water and then just top off as needed with straight antifreeze.

Has kept her clean this far...

The Mr Gasket thermostat is right in line with all the others folks have mentioned. It cost 10 bucks at Azone... and did the trick here.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/2tone-crossfire/holding/07328abb.jpg

yeah, I know, I know, the FI is not on the car, but thats a Holley from a 66 Chevelle 396 and a Weiland single plain intake... It for sure makes more HP that the FI ever did. And don't miss a beat... Some day back to the the FI...

[Joe R.]

Re: Thermostat or not?

James-----


I would not remove the thermostat. However, I would use a Robertshaw thermostat. These allow for a higher flow. I use them exclusively.

A lower temperature thermostat will only provide a lower operating temperature if the cooling system is capable of maintaining that lower operating temperature. From the sounds of it, I greatly doubt that your system is capable of doing that so I don't see what a lower temperature thermostat is going to do for you.

Jim,

Here's the thermostat Joe mentions. It's the best one to use because it won't fail stuck closed.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BRA-330-180/

Joe

[James S.]

Re: Thermostat or not?

1960 283 4 BBL Vette

Thanks for all of the comments.

NCRS is the best forum I belong to, and I don't own this original paint vette!

I did buy the IR gun; what a sweet tool. I was checking out all kinds of temps!

At operating temp, thermostat open, timing at 4 BTDC, dwell @ 28 degrees, and idle at 450 rpm, the following temps in degrees F were observed with:

1. intake: 228
2. H2O pump: 175
3. passenger head: 203
4. radiator at cap opening: 174
5. radiator hose top: 164
6. radiator hose bottom: 145
7. generator: 145

Temps were a tad bit higher after driving for 15 minutes (but I had the hood of, so the flow of air may have been hindered through the radiator. I'm am thinking about installing a 160 degree high performance thermostat. Or should I not install a cooler thermostat?

Jim

[Wayne G.]

Re: Thermostat or not?

1960 283 4 BBL Vette

Thanks for all of the comments.

NCRS is the best forum I belong to, and I don't own this original paint vette!

I did buy the IR gun; what a sweet tool. I was checking out all kinds of temps!

At operating temp, thermostat open, timing at 4 BTDC, dwell @ 28 degrees, and idle at 450 rpm, the following temps in degrees F were observed with:

1. intake: 228
2. H2O pump: 175
3. passenger head: 203
4. radiator at cap opening: 174
5. radiator hose top: 164
6. radiator hose bottom: 145
7. generator: 145

Temps were a tad bit higher after driving for 15 minutes (but I had the hood of, so the flow of air may have been hindered through the radiator. I'm am thinking about installing a 160 degree high performance thermostat. Or should I not install a cooler thermostat?

Jim

I'm gonna tackle this a bit, I am no expert but all the questions I had asked when I redid my 82 Crossfire to a high 436HP motor every one had a reason for this or that, but what I found is this...

Most folks like 180 as that seems to be the best to use for ENGINE OIL operating range. So one does not get any oil build up issues, Just what every one said... guess they claim sludge can build if the motors not hot enough or other build up can happen? I think it all depends on what one is going to do, Race? Street Driven, or how and were you drive....

Most folks argued that a cooler thermostat would give better performance since the gas at intake will be cooler... I don't think its that important as is the actual air coming into the car, FRESH air away from any and all engine heat to first mix with the gas gives a better air/fuel mix.

I was warned I would never keep it cool with that much HP under the hood and the stock rad. well alls I did was run a HI FLOW water pump, alum not that it makes that much of a difference and I stayed with a 180 vs 185 as factory calls for it... since I don't drive in the winter I dont think the thermostat is all that important in the summer any is ok or even none as long as it about 60-90 outside, that being said the thermostat is for warming up the motor faster. And to provide a temp or heat range to the heater... So if you not winter driving a 160 HI FLOW is just fine. If you overheating you have overheating issues no thermo higher or lower would solve that issue... You need to look at the FAN and Rad and make sure it is adiquate to cool the HP you have... I added a simple fan switch to my 82 and now I can turn on the electric secondary fan that normally cam on around 210 and change the temp sender for it to be 195 now if the car gets hot I can turn on the fan at and before startup to cool the car, as it gets pretty hot once I shut her down, I almost wish I would take the time to make a shutdown timer and have the fan cool the rad after the car is turned off till say 180 or have it turn off after about 5 minutes, the fan is not all the efficent so it pulls or draws a bunch of amps and that may kill the battery tho?

Also I completely clean her and redid all the rad support rubber and foam seals. I would guess to say a small unsealed area can cause some air flow issues. Just makes sense, and the 82 has a few gaps her and there... Plus I know the air dam really help when I put it back on, to many people on the C3's take em off since they bottom out very often, just have to know its a Vette and a low to the ground car...


So again a 160 is fine it just means the thing will open at 160 and start to flow... No matter what you car will get a range at idle and go up or down depending on outside air temp, and when driving she will go down of course. If she's overheating no thermo will fix that... Unless its stuck or you try a HI FLO and allow more flow that may help. A larger cooling system will help, a electric fan can assist. Or a more efficient radiator or water pump. If its factory as I have stated in my post it should work fine if she is as from factory, clean out the fins with a air hose just be careful you can blow them shut and mess them up if you don't spray straight on and move slowly accross it... I would soak it with a clean and wash it with water first... worked wonders on mine... and make sure all gaskets are in place and shrouds and you should be fine... A hi flow water pump may help a little also...

Good luck and enjoy the temp sender, works great on headers or exhaust temps also to spot a problem just make sure you don't shine it on any reflective surface vs. a other type as you will get different readings... example coated headers can give untrue readings from pipe to pipe depending on coating thickness and such... but its a great tool....

The Robertshaw one is a nice idea if she stays open when fails? Not sure if the MR GASKET one I used can do that, but I must say they look almost identical.... I can't see any flow diff myself at the rad, but I had not to start in the car and now after all I have done she stays at 190 and not much over that so far on a 85-90 degree day... I am idling at 800 as per what I read on a FI motor... used to be 450 but I can tell she gets way to hot at that speed so for now 750-800 and later when it cools back to the loppy 450 I really like that thump..... thump... almost stall.... sound!

I have the issue of the gas purculating a little in the HOLLEY, I may try and get a Phenolic Spacer or back the levels down 1/8th under the site as Holley suggest... Its not much but I hate the little bit of gas that gets on the drivers side intake. Seems to look like Gatorade all that GREEN DARN CORN SYRUP CRAP they are calling GAS.... err time to make the trip to get 94 Sunocco! Least its not green!

I was going to also chime in before about the IR gun I got one at the (super store) Harbor Freight hehe actually my son got it for me, said it was under 20 bucks, real nice tool cheap looking but has not failed yet, has peak hold and a pointer on off... I check it with another and also with my cars temp senders and IAT's and she dead on... rather scary how across a room of 20 feet its pretty accurate... Enjoy!

[James S.]

Re: Thermostat or not?

Very interesting read Wayne. I think I will switch to the 160 high flow stat. The owners of this Vette will not drive it in the winter. Thanks!

Jim