Starter won't fire, 1959 Corvette

[Eric H.]

This one has me stumped. Any bright ideas would be appreciated and I'll try to make the long story short. On a recent outing my starter ceased to turn over the engine. We could push start the car in 4th gear, and it ran fine. After a lot of troubleshooting it has come down to this. The starter will bench check and run with a remote trigger and starting/charging unit. Install the starter in the car with none of the wiring connected (to rule out a problem in the wiring....all new anyway) and the same arrangement, that is remote trigger and starter/charger connected and the starter will not turn over the engine. The solenoid rapid "fires" and the engine moves slightly, no more than 45 degrees of a 360 degree rotation. I can turn over the engine by prying on the flywheel, with little effort, and it has run fine the last few years. A second starter gave the same results. Any ideas why the starter works out of the car but not installed?? Any suggestions on how to trouble-shoot this are really appreciated.

[Jorn J.]

Re: Starter won't fire, 1959 Corvette

Hi Eric
Have you tested that the Starter is grounded properly! only a suggestion.
Jorn

[Terry D.]

Re: Starter won't fire, 1959 Corvette

Is the battery good? Have it load tested. Sounds like a grounding problem.
Terry

[Timothy B.]

Re: Starter won't fire, 1959 Corvette

Eric,

Sounds to me like a problem within the starter motor as it will not turn against the compression of the motor.

[Edward J.]

Re: Starter won't fire, 1959 Corvette

Sounds like Terry has the right Idea, firist check the battery standing voltage, a volt meter across the terminals it should read 12.66 volts for a fully charged battery.or should be some wheres near that. Checking the ground cable at block is also a needed check . look at the battery terminals for corrosion. Maybe a good Idea to clean them anyway with a wire brush or terminal cleaner.

[Eric H.]

Re: Starter won't fire, 1959 Corvette

Thanks guys. Ground is good. Battery is 13.5 volts. No matter what, I'm powering the starter with a remote starting unit (industrial shop type starter/charger) and trigger, not using the car battery. I have disconnected all car wiring (batt. cables, ignition, resistor etc)from the starter, to rule out a problem with the wiring. I have already checked it all and done what you suggested. Both starters run off the car with this arrangement, but will not turn over installed, with the same remote power arrangement. It has been suggested that the ring gear may be out of alignment... Thanks for your further input.

[Rod K.]

Re: Starter won't fire, 1959 Corvette

Sounds like you're not using getting enough current from your starting unit. Use the battery to get adequate current to turn the starter with the engine load. I've had similar situations using a charger with "start" function and experienced the same solenoid chatter and lack of engine turnover. Just not enough oomph in the booster device.

[Tom F.]

Re: Starter won't fire, 1959 Corvette

Eric:

Have you checked out the ignition switch? There could be a dead spot on the switch not getting current to starter.

[Edward J.]

Re: Starter won't fire, 1959 Corvette

Thanks guys. Ground is good. Battery is 13.5 volts. No matter what, I'm powering the starter with a remote starting unit (industrial shop type starter/charger) and trigger, not using the car battery. I have disconnected all car wiring (batt. cables, ignition, resistor etc)from the starter, to rule out a problem with the wiring. I have already checked it all and done what you suggested. Both starters run off the car with this arrangement, but will not turn over installed, with the same remote power arrangement. It has been suggested that the ring gear may be out of alignment... Thanks for your further input.

Eric, Can you spin the engine over one complete rev. with the front crank bolt or flywheel? I know you mention that you could spin it over with a wrench, but looking to make sure that there is not a possible hydraulic lock situation.sometimes its will turn over with a wrench and stop when there is fluid in the cylinder and valves are closed.

another check is with starter installed can you use a remote starter button and turn the engine over that way. This will by-pass the starter wiring to solenoid.

[William C.]

Re: Starter won't fire, 1959 Corvette

Take a very good luck at the battery cables, condition, and condition of the connections to both the solenoid and the GROUND.

[Paul J.]

Re: Starter won't fire, 1959 Corvette

This one has me stumped. Any bright ideas would be appreciated and I'll try to make the long story short. On a recent outing my starter ceased to turn over the engine. We could push start the car in 4th gear, and it ran fine. After a lot of troubleshooting it has come down to this. The starter will bench check and run with a remote trigger and starting/charging unit. Install the starter in the car with none of the wiring connected (to rule out a problem in the wiring....all new anyway) and the same arrangement, that is remote trigger and starter/charger connected and the starter will not turn over the engine. The solenoid rapid "fires" and the engine moves slightly, no more than 45 degrees of a 360 degree rotation. I can turn over the engine by prying on the flywheel, with little effort, and it has run fine the last few years. A second starter gave the same results. Any ideas why the starter works out of the car but not installed?? Any suggestions on how to trouble-shoot this are really appreciated.

The starter is bad, Eric. I've seen failures like this. It functions fine without any load, but it does'nt have the power to turn engine. You can't diagnose this in "bench check".

[Edward J.]

Re: Starter won't fire, 1959 Corvette

The starter is bad, Eric. I've seen failures like this. It functions fine without any load, but it does'nt have the power to turn engine. You can't diagnose this in "bench check".

Paul, I think he has two starters both doing the same thing.

[Eric H.]

Re: Starter won't fire, 1959 Corvette

Gentlemen:
Thank you for all your suggestions...here is where I stand after checking again last night. Paul, I do indeed have two starters, both give the same result and one is new (reman.) Still possible, as you said, both could be bad. William, I am bypassing the battery cables with the remote power source, so they don't factor in. Ed, yes I can turn the engine over completely with normal effort, so there is no hydrolock. Tom, I have bypassed the ignition switch so it is not a factor. Rod, I will take your advice and try a different power source in a day or two. You have a point that I need to investigate. For any of you still interested in this puzzlement...when I energize the starter, I can watch the pinion gear engage the ring gear and ever so slowly, about one tooth per second, try to advance the flywheel if I keep the power to it. When I release the remote trigger, the pinion doesn't snap back into the starter unless I advance the ring gear manually. So I'm thinking some sort of misalignment is at least part of the problem. Neither the flywheel or ring gear seem to be out of alignment, loose or damaged. The weird thing is that this happened all suddenly. Two cranks to attempt to start normally (fuel injection takes at least three, you know) and on the third turn of the key...nothing....no click, no grind, no turn. Only with the remote power supply was I able to get the starter to move at all or make a sound. Thank you all for your patience and input.

[Tom F.]

Re: Starter won't fire, 1959 Corvette

Eric:

When you replaced the starter did you replace the solenoid? I never saw any mention of that in all of the posts.

[Paul J.]

Re: Starter won't fire, 1959 Corvette

Paul, I think he has two starters both doing the same thing.

Thanks Ed, I missed that. That's what I get for watching Mecum and trying to answer questions at the same time.

Eric it's highly unlikely that two different starters would be bad, but let me muddy the waters a bit. I had a 78 that would not start when it was hot. When you turned the key, the pinion would engage the flywheel and stick, not turning the engine and not retracting after I let go of the key. It would stay stuck in the flywheel until I beat the #%&* out of the solenoid to convince it to turn loose. When you backed the starter out and hit the key, it would spin fine. I replaced the starter and that fixed it. The problem had been the solenoid, as Tom suggests.

Does the pinion stick in the flywheel with both starters?

It sounds like neither your battery nor your power source have enough amps to turn the engine over. Just because a battery shows enough volts does'nt necessarily mean that it's good. It takes amps to move that flywheel (like Rod was trying to say).

Go ahead and try your different power source, I'm voting that that's your problem.

Paul