Proper painting technique for my 65

[Martin T.]

I have been in contact with several individuals regarding the correct method for painting my 65. My understanding is the current PPG Lacquer paint differs from the original paint used by G.M.
So here is the question: Several painters have suggested that the correct method is to lay down about four coats without any clear mixed in and then the final coats should have about 50% clear mixed in to avoid buffing swirls in the the metallic color (nassau blue). A couple of NCRS guys have said "no clear". I do not want to lose points when judged but paint/buffing swirls are not acceptable either. What and how should the paint be applied?

[Dick W.]

Re: Proper painting technique for my 65

I always used 50% clear in the last 3-4 coats. Most of those coats will be buffed off anyway.

Most people that are adamant about not using clear have never painted a car.

[Martin T.]

Re: Proper painting technique for my 65

I always used 50% clear in the last 3-4 coats. Most of those coats will be buffed off anyway.

Most people that are adamant about not using clear have never painted a car.

Dick, Have you been concerned about losing points on paint when mixing the clear with color? Perhaps the question should be: Have you ever been dinged due to mixing in 50% clear?

[Norris W.]

Re: Proper painting technique for my 65

It's not swirl marks that you encounter with no clear, but rather circles from going through one layer to the next which can leave almost naked metallic. I did one of my Riverside Gold '69's with no clear and ended up painting it 3 times. The second one done a couple of years later got just what Dick said and both cars were Top Flight with no hits on the paint.

[Carl N.]

Re: Proper painting technique for my 65

Dick may take issue with me, but I've always used 4 - 5 coats of lacquer without any clear - HAND sand progressively with clean water and corn starch till smooth then hand buff with 3m finess for final finish - then polish & wax after 'bout 6 months in the ole Texas sun.

If your gonna clear it go with current 2 stage - 4 coats of best clear you can afford then hand sand with clean water, machine buff with foam pads and then wool to final finish

Just depends on what you want as final product. I've always felt the final product is a direct reflection for the amount of prep prior to paint.

Have fun & save the wave
Carl

[Chris S.]

Re: Proper painting technique for my 65

have you thought about a single stage?
Solves your clear issue.
Todays clears are designed for UV protection and to protect the basecoat that is underneath it.
- Trust me - you can make single stage look like laq. and you can make BC CC look like it too - depends on what your after.

[Martin T.]

Re: Proper painting technique for my 65

have you thought about a single stage?
Solves your clear issue.
Todays clears are designed for UV protection and to protect the basecoat that is underneath it.
- Trust me - you can make single stage look like laq. and you can make BC CC look like it too - depends on what your after.

Chris, Thank you for the response but the question was regarding mixing clear lacquer with the lacquer color for the last two coats?

[Bill M.]

Re: Proper painting technique for my 65

Dick may take issue with me, but I've always used 4 - 5 coats of lacquer without any clear - HAND sand progressively with clean water and corn starch till smooth then hand buff with 3m finess for final finish - then polish & wax after 'bout 6 months in the ole Texas sun.

Have fun & save the wave
Carl

That's fine for a solid color, but you can get mottling with a metallic lacquer if you sand it flat.

[Pat M.]

Re: Proper painting technique for my 65

That's fine for a solid color, but you can get mottling with a metallic lacquer if you sand it flat.

Yup. The previous owner of my Marlboro Maroon 70 sanded the lacquer and it had a couple "burn throughs" causing mottling.

When I had the car repainted soley with lacquer (no clear) my painter simply buffed the paint until it had the correct shine and orange peel. No mottling, no buffing swirls that I see, and received minimal deductions at a National, and that was only for the shade of the paint.

[Wayne G.]

Re: Proper painting technique for my 65

I'm curious with the "minimal deduction" for the wrong shade of paint? I'm assuming you used as close to the factory lacquer mix as possible.
Unless it was way off color how can you tell? Was there an original paint, Bow Tie '70 next to it so you can see the difference?

Wayne

[Pat M.]

Re: Proper painting technique for my 65

I'm curious with the "minimal deduction" for the wrong shade of paint? I'm assuming you used as close to the factory lacquer mix as possible.
Unless it was way off color how can you tell? Was there an original paint, Bow Tie '70 next to it so you can see the difference?

Wayne

Hi Wayne, great question, one I asked myself. I did use as close to factory lacquer as practicably possible for me (modern PPG).

So how could one tell the difference? There was no Bowtie next to me. My judge had a little book full of "swatches" of colors and the judge literally butted it up next to my paint.

Where was the swatch from? How could anyone know it was accurate today? I have no idea. In the end I got the Duntov, so I quickly lost interest.

Here's a pic of the actual judging sheet for my car. You can see 9 points were deducted for the "color off a couple shades".

[Michael H.]

Re: Proper painting technique for my 65

So how could one tell the difference? There was no Bowtie next to me. My judge had a little book full of "swatches" of colors and the judge literally butted it up next to my paint.

".

It may be possible to compare non metallic colors to a "paint swatch" but not with a metallic color.
Paint swatches, even those found in OEM paint mfg's folders, are only photographs of the color that are printed. It's not the actual paint.
The problem is, metallic colors change, a lot, depending the light that shines down into the paint and reflects around in the clear/binder that all metallic colors contain.
Unless someone has an actual chunk of original paint, it's not possible to compare one against the other.

Also, two cars with original metallic paint of the same trade name/color do not necessarily always match. There are too many variables that can/do change the appearance of the color, even if both cars are painted using the same batch of paint at the St Louis plant.

[Joel F.]

Re: Proper painting technique for my 65

I was under the impression (probably falsely) that paint color was an "all or nothing" category. If the car was supposed to be marina blue and looked pretty close, it got all the points. If it were royal blue or sky blue or a non-metallic shade, etc., it got none.

Can someone clarify on this? I see that the judging sheet is from a national convention so I would hope that a partial deduct on paint color was not a mistake.

[Pat M.]

Re: Proper painting technique for my 65

I was under the impression (probably falsely) that paint color was an "all or nothing" category. If the car was supposed to be marina blue and looked pretty close, it got all the points. If it were royal blue or sky blue or a non-metallic shade, etc., it got none.

Can someone clarify on this? I see that the judging sheet is from a national convention so I would hope that a partial deduct on paint color was not a mistake.

Joel, I can tell you that I thought the deduct should have been even less, and I politely brought it up to my team leader, and he told me something to the effect that this was a pretty typical deduction. So, unless the leader was mistaken, as of 2008 you could get a partial deduct on color. Hopefully someone will tell us if that's still the case today.

[Gene M.]

Re: Proper painting technique for my 65

Todays available lacquer have clear/binder that all metallic colors contain in a greater proportion than in the 60's. The old old stuff had a lot more pigment. This can even be said for some of the solid lacquers such as Riverside red.

Be advised you will need more coats to get the coverage of yester year.

Try a solid color base prior to the metallic top coat. You will get better coverage when applied top coat metallic is applied with less paint. Also you will need not add any clear to final coats since the paint is composed of more clear to start with. But that is up to personal taste.