Knock Off Thread Lubricant?

[Larry B.]

I just removed my knock offs to put on new tires. The right side was overly tight and nearly destroyed my hammer. Is there a lubricant or anti-sieze I should put on to make them loosen up easier? I know you do not want too much of a lubricating quality on the threads. Thanks, Larry

[Mike M.]

Re: Knock Off Thread Lubricant?

i put no lubricants on any of my c-2's equipped with knock-offs. in the early 80's i sent some spinners out for chrome plating, they returned and i lub'd them . left maryland and going thru jacksonville fla, a spinner came off. thankfully the rear quarter panel prevented the wheeel itself from going down I-95. i don't use the GM supplied lead hammers to install or remove spinners. i've got an old 5# leather headed hammer that i use for such. regards,mike

[Chris H.]

Re: Knock Off Thread Lubricant?

Larry, are your knock offs the repro "safety" style with the pins in them? or are they the original style?

If repros with the pins, good ole generic anti-sieze on the threads ought to do the trick.

[Larry B.]

Re: Knock Off Thread Lubricant?

Mike, What is a leather headed hammer? I use a "****** Thumper".

Chris, Three of the hubs are grooved for pins and one is not. I understand the pins are just for anti-theft and not to keep the wheels from coming off.

[Chris H.]

Re: Knock Off Thread Lubricant?

Larry, the pins keep the spinner from rotating.

On the wheel without the pin, I would use anti-sieze and just whack the hell out of it to tighten it.

I use a 5 pound "dead-blow" plastic hammer, available at any Home Depot etc. Much more durable than the lead hammer and because it's plastic, it won't leave a mark on the spinner.

[Dick W.]

Re: Knock Off Thread Lubricant?

Much more durable than the lead hammer and because it's plastic, it won't leave a mark on the spinner.

But will remove a layer of paint on the fender when your aim is off just a wee bit. Don't ask me how I know this. There is a very nice '65 396 car on the Left Coast that is living proof of this.

[Bruce S.]

Re: Knock Off Thread Lubricant?

Being from the midwest, I put a very small dab of wheel bearing grease on spinners back when cars with KOs were used in every day driving. Water and worse, water with salt getting up into small places would encourage rust. With what little driving I do now and living were I do, I'm not sure it's needed. I still do add the grease though, and have never had a problem.

[Bill W.]

Re: Knock Off Thread Lubricant?

i put no lubricants on any of my c-2's equipped with knock-offs. in the early 80's i sent some spinners out for chrome plating, they returned and i lub'd them . left maryland and going thru jacksonville fla, a spinner came off. thankfully the rear quarter panel prevented the wheeel itself from going down I-95. i don't use the GM supplied lead hammers to install or remove spinners. i've got an old 5# leather headed hammer that i use for such. regards,mike

Larry,
I must respectfully disagree with Mike. I believe the threads and the beveled areas of the spinner and the wheel should be lubed with a good anti-sieze agent. When installed dry, friction between the surfaces will give a false indication of correct torque. Only by reducing this friction (with lube) can the proper torque be reached. The clamping action between the threads and the beveled area must be high enough to withstand other forces.
So why don't all the KO's without lube fall off? Some do, just like some lubed ones fall off. The lube allows you to achieve proper torque, plus it allows you to remove the wheel without damage at a later date.
Much has been written over the years about these wheels and "lubed vs. unlubed" is just a small part of the story. More important (IMO) is using the wrong lug nuts (the short ones) to attach adapter to axle. Only the long ones should ever be used! Damage caused by mis-indexing the short ones will lead to sloppy fit between the drive pins and their correct hole in the wheel. When this happens the wheel WILL begin to move back and forth in relation to it's adapter. The next thing to happen is that wheel is coming off, no matter how much torque it was installed with.
I guess the bottom line is high friction from un-lubed threads will hold a wheel in place as well as high clamping force caused by correct torque. Only difference is the lubed wheel will be removed with less chance of damage. Bill

[Donald O.]

Re: Knock Off Thread Lubricant?

Larry, the pins keep the spinner from rotating.

Then how would you remove the spinner with the pins? You sure as heck won't get a needle nose pilers on it and pull it out.
The pins are designed to shear and allow the spinner to be removed. It does take a lot more force to shear the pins. IIRC the pins are aluminum. Been a while since I had any.

[Bill W.]

Re: Knock Off Thread Lubricant?

Then how would you remove the spinner with the pins? You sure as heck won't get a needle nose pilers on it and pull it out.
The pins are designed to shear and allow the spinner to be removed. It does take a lot more force to shear the pins. IIRC the pins are aluminum. Been a while since I had any.

Donald,
Not sure if your question was directed at me of not, but I'll give my two cents worth.
My answer was directed at original wheels, but is applicable to repro wheels also. It's my opinion that those aluminum pins give a false sense of security and I don't recomend their use. Those pins WILL NOT prevent a repro wheel from coming off. Proper installation is what keeps those wheels in place. Bill

[Joel T.]

Re: Knock Off Thread Lubricant?

Hi;

My repop KOs do not have the pins... in my mind, they are more trouble than they are worth.. I use the copper anti-seize compound on the hub threads. I also have that KO "tool" which Dennis Portika sells.. That and a 5# hand sledge do the job.. I can get them super tight and have never had a loosening problem once I figured all this out. The tool keeps the spinners from any kind of damage as well... The trick to protect the fenders is to get the wheel almost off the ground and to get the spinner somewhat tight (tool and hammer) and then to rotate the tire so as to get maximum clearance before you put full weight back..so your swing comes no where near the fenders.. Usually 10-12 good whacks, using both hands, does the trick! Doing four wheels this way is actually a good workout!

Just another perspective...

Joel

[Donald O.]

Re: Knock Off Thread Lubricant?

Donald,
Not sure if your question was directed at me of not, but I'll give my two cents worth.
My answer was directed at original wheels, but is applicable to repro wheels also. It's my opinion that those aluminum pins give a false sense of security and I don't recomend their use. Those pins WILL NOT prevent a repro wheel from coming off. Proper installation is what keeps those wheels in place. Bill

Bill,
Definitely not directed towards you, that is why I quoted Chris.
I agree with your comments about the pins, not needed IF the wheels are installed properly and checked on a regular schedule.
Don

[Joe C.]

Re: Knock Off Thread Lubricant?

I have had a set of Western repops circa mid seventies installed, with aluminum pins, for eleven years now. I use anti seize on the threads and the beveled section of the spinner which contacts the rims' hub. The sheet metal cap is what keeps the pins in place. As a matter of fact, if you can't get the chrome cap to snap into place, then the pin is not bottomed in its hole. I have never had a wheel come loose on me. I have never had an aluminum pin shear off. I whack the shlt out of the spinners using a piece of oak and a 6 pound hand sledge. I used to check the wheels for looseness at first, but over the last several years I no longer check them.

[Scott H.]

Re: Knock Off Thread Lubricant?

Adding the results of an experiment to the experiences above....I have had two knock offs come loose after several hundred miles. The spinner nuts had been marked with a Sharpie so I caught them before they fell off. Before they came loose I beat them really hard with a 5 pound hammer and a piece of wood. One of them had pins. As stated above my pins simply sheared when the wheel nut was ready to come loose.

So this time I applied Permatex anti-seize to the threads and the contact surface. Then the nuts were lubed and reinstalled. With only 2 or 3 blows one nut tightened 1/4 inch further than when beat many times dry. The other wheel tightened 1/2 inch further. I forgot to mark the wheel location on the other two. Regardless, just like nobody would reassemble their engine with dry treads the anti-seize seems to help get proper torque.

[Michael G.]

Re: Knock Off Thread Lubricant?

Not sure about replying to this ancient thread, but here goes:

What holds the wheel on is load, not torque. The torque you apply to the spinner is translated into load, in essence a force pushing the spinner toward the center of the car, pushing the wheel onto the cone. Friction between the threads as well as on the conical seating surface is all-important in determining the relationship between the torque applied to the spinner and the resulting load. More friction, less resulting load.

You can achieve exactly the same load to hold the wheel on, with or without lubricant, you just need to apply a lot more torque to get that load when you don’t use lubricant. Since we don’t know the frictional relationships present on 60-year-old vehicles, (its certainly not what left St. Louis) a torque spec is therefore a bad idea here, and random hammer blows worse yet.

What we should have specified, is a seating torque, say 100 FT-lb, then instructions as to how many degrees to further rotate the spinner after you achieve that 100 ft-lbs. The 100 ft-lbs is about what you can deliver with hand T-wrench, and ensures the wheel is seated. Then the additional rotation to a set number of degrees (with as big a hammer as required) delivers a consistent clamp-load to the wheel.

Using such a spec, you can safely install a non-lubricated wheel, or one with anti-sieze, or whatever. Maybe someday I’ll get around to developing that spec… (maybe before I do a PV in two weeks with my knock-offs)