Deduction for 3M clear bra?

[Walter G.]

My '84 received a Regional Top Flight in '07 and in '08 I was a participant in the NCM/GM 100th Anniversary Motorama. Prior to that 3,000 mile trip I had the 3M film applied to a portion of my front bumper and hood. I plan to enter the car in future NCRS events and am wondering what point deduction I can be expected to receive for this added protection?

[Patrick H.]

Re: Deduction for 3M clear bra?

My '84 received a Regional Top Flight in '07 and in '08 I was a participant in the NCM/GM 100th Anniversary Motorama. Prior to that 3,000 mile trip I had the 3M film applied to a portion of my front bumper and hood. I plan to enter the car in future NCRS events and am wondering what point deduction I can be expected to receive for this added protection?

Walter,

Unfortunately, per currently written guidelines, it would receive a full deduction of all paint points.

Judging Reference Manual, section 15, Body paint:
"The presence of any custom paint modifications which shall include lettering, pin stripes...or any other non-factory inspired additions. Total deduction for Originality and Condition."
The film counts as "non-factory inspired additions."


Patrick

[Gary C.]

Re: Deduction for 3M clear bra?

Walter, recommend you ask the year model Judging Team Leader your question. Gary....

[Walter G.]

Re: Deduction for 3M clear bra?

Dave, thanks for your reply. I share your thoughts as the film is for protection and to encourage use of the car, not intended to be an appearance modification. This issue will likely come up even more when the C5/C6 cars become NCRS eligible as many of them have had this applied when new. I realize it is not 'factory' and would likely take some kind of points hit but the severity is what is open to interpretation/judgement.

[Gary C.]

Re: Deduction for 3M clear bra?

Dave,

Understand your point. Consistency happens at the Team Leaders meetings where these kind of topics are discussed. I always like to ask the Team Leader 1st. JMTCW,

Gary
....

[Walter G.]

Re: Deduction for 3M clear bra?

As per an earlier suggestion I have sent this question to Allen Tremain (team leader). Thanks to those who have offered input.

[Terry M.]

Re: Deduction for 3M clear bra?

Patrick and I would be interested in his answer. We both have a dog in this fight.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Deduction for 3M clear bra?

Patrick and I would be interested in his answer. We both have a dog in this fight.

Thankfully we have about 2 "dog years" until it matters.

[Louis T.]

Re: Deduction for 3M clear bra?

Hi Walter,

I agree with your approach as I too would politely explain the situation to the Team Leader and/or Judging Chairman ahead of time and ask for a waiver. Some photos including close-ups might help.

The argument I would make is that per the spirit (if not letter) of the rules, the film should result in no deduction, as unlike pinstripes, etc., its purpose is not to alter appearance but preserve originality. (Your point about encouraging the use of the car is an excellent one as well.) It is limited to the front of the car, is temporary and can be removed easily with no tools, and (unless tinted by design or age) obstructs no part of the paint or panels being judged. As long as color, chips, misaligned panels, and any clear coat build-up around headlights, etc., would all be clearly visible through it, there is nothing material in the judging process that would be impeded. The only thing resulting from you being required to peel it off before judging commences to avoid deductions - which you could easily do - is the loss to you of what I assume to be several hundred dollars worth of protectant film (and the risk of chips on the drive home, which all drivers face).

That said, if the existing rules are strictly applied and the film is deemed a non-factory inspired option - after all, as near invisible as it might be without close inspection, it did not come that way from the factory - as Patrick notes, given the current verbiage and common interpretation of the rules, there is no provision for partial deducts on paint originality for such a circumstance - it would receive a complete paint deduction, which would also lose you all of the condition points as well.



Good luck, and let us know how the matter is resolved!

Louis

[Walter G.]

Re: Deduction for 3M clear bra?

I posed the question re the point deduct for the 3M clear bra to Allen Tremain, team leader, and the answer I received yesterday was:
"You will lose points as a percentage of coverage of the 3M clear bra versus the entire painted surface of the car. If it covers 10% of the car you would lose 8 points or if it covers 5% of the car it would be four points." He indicated this was discussed with other team leaders, so should be a consistently applied deduct for all cars. Now we all know what to expect...

[Clem Z.]

Re: Deduction for 3M clear bra?

I posed the question re the point deduct for the 3M clear bra to Allen Tremain, team leader, and the answer I received yesterday was:
"You will lose points as a percentage of coverage of the 3M clear bra versus the entire painted surface of the car. If it covers 10% of the car you would lose 8 points or if it covers 5% of the car it would be four points." He indicated this was discussed with other team leaders, so should be a consistently applied deduct for all cars. Now we all know what to expect...

if it is not in the manuals get it in print and signed.

[Peter M.]

Re: Deduction for 3M clear bra?

I posed the question re the point deduct for the 3M clear bra to Allen Tremain, team leader, and the answer I received yesterday was:
"You will lose points as a percentage of coverage of the 3M clear bra versus the entire painted surface of the car. If it covers 10% of the car you would lose 8 points or if it covers 5% of the car it would be four points." He indicated this was discussed with other team leaders, so should be a consistently applied deduct for all cars. Now we all know what to expect...

That sure seems more reasonable then a total 80 point deduct.

[Patrick H.]

Re: Deduction for 3M clear bra?

if it is not in the manuals get it in print and signed.

I'd agree.

Now my thought is "good luck on getting judges at two different events to agree on how much of your Corvette is covered." This is the same slippery slope that led to the current 100% deduction rule.

I would now highly recommend contacting Roy Sinor to see what he says about this, as it could come down to his vote at a meet.

Patrick