'64 Replacement Outside Mirror

[Dale M.]

I ordered Paragon Outside Mirror, #1109 for 63-67 I am concerned that the snap ring holding the mirror in, is not properly installed. It looks like most of the snap ring is exposed. I can see 1/8 inch or 11 mm of this snap ring exposed around the frame of the mirror. My existing mirror there is only a small, almost invisible edge showing.

Paragon responded:

Well were you are seeing the difference is that the original snap ring is thinner than the ring we offer in our mirror. We are unable to get the same size ring that they used originally. So with the ring being thicker you will see more of it on the new mirror than the old original one.

Neil

Is this a reasonable answer to my issue? I want to be fair, but i really do not like the new mirror and want to know how I should continue. Picture attached.

I feel that vendors need to inform you before you purchase. I had it date coded, so returning in not practical.

Thanks for any help.

[Scott S.]

Re: '64 Replacement Outside Mirror

I ordered Paragon Outside Mirror, #1109 for 63-67 I am concerned that the snap ring holding the mirror in, is not properly installed. It looks like most of the snap ring is exposed. I can see 1/8 inch or 11 mm of this snap ring exposed around the frame of the mirror. My existing mirror there is only a small, almost invisible edge showing.

Paragon responded:

Well were you are seeing the difference is that the original snap ring is thinner than the ring we offer in our mirror. We are unable to get the same size ring that they used originally. So with the ring being thicker you will see more of it on the new mirror than the old original one.

Neil

Is this a reasonable answer to my issue? I want to be fair, but i really do not like the new mirror and want to know how I should continue. Picture attached.

I feel that vendors need to inform you before you purchase. I had it date coded, so returning in not practical.

Thanks for any help.

Hi Dale,

If your only issue with the new mirror is the incorrect snap-ring, can you use your original snap-ring in the reproduction mirror?

[Gary B.]

'64 Replacement Outside Mirror

Dale,

The repro mirrors have a couple of problems with them. The snap ring width is one that is obvious to experienced judge.s The sharpness of the bowtie logo is another item that the judges look for. Unfortunately, some of the TIM&JG (e.g., '66) don't mention these issues, but as I said they are well-known among experienced judges and I'm sure that information filters back to the vendors, but most vendors will not publicize the small differences between repro parts and originals, since that would hurt sales and not all buyers have NCRS standards in mind.

Gary

[Dale M.]

Re: '64 Replacement Outside Mirror

Scott, good point. One of my club member contacted me last night with the same idea. Are there any directions or recommendations of removing the snap rings? I don't want to tear up my glass.

[Dale M.]

Re: '64 Replacement Outside Mirror

Gary, I would tell the vendors that I am more displeased than had I known. I may have been able to send them my old snap ring. I do understand that some of these parts cannot be made actually as the original. My headlight harness has different color connectors for the headlight motor, but my supplier told me that he cannot get them in that color. I accept that, but after the fact is not a responsible vendor.

I have another member in our club that is building a '61 to be judged. Yesterday several of us went over to review the frame and engine. We found a lot of issues and he had purchased many parts that are not correct. Several oil pans, started motor with incorrect date and screw, incorrect carburetors, incorrect bolts and etc. He has spend thousand of dollars worth of parts that must be replaced. Even his motor must be redone. This is hurting our clubs and discouraging people from doing these projects. I really feel sorry for this person, you should have seen him yesterday.

Any ideas how our members can better determined what they are buying??????? (before they purchase and throw them away)

[Gary B.]

Re: '64 Replacement Outside Mirror

Any ideas how our members can better determined what they are buying??????? (before they purchase and throw them away)

Dale,

To have the best chance of being satisfied with a part, my approach has always been based on this sequence:

1) Remove an original part from my car and restore it, whenever possible
2) Buy a vintage, original part, either restored or unrestored
3) Buy an NOS part, after confirming via research that it's the same as an original part
4) Buy a repro part, but only after talking with judges or posting a question on one of the discussion boards or forums asking who makes the most accurate repro. Sometimes no one does, as in the case of the mirror.

The problem with this approach is that sometimes it is just not possible or not cost efficient to restore an original part. Sometimes one just needs to take a deduct on originality and go with a repro part.

Gary

[David L.]

Re: '64 Replacement Outside Mirror

In my opinion reproduction parts should only be used until a NOS or good used original part can be found. I avoid reproduction parts as much as possible. I don't think that I have bought a reproduction part in the last 25 years. In many cases it takes a lot of research, a large Chevrolet parts catalog library, and a lot of time and effort going to auto swap meets and junk yards. It is not easy and that is what makes it more interesting. I have been doing research and buying original parts since 1979 and have more then 55 different Chevrolet & Corvette parts catalogs from 1957 to 1981 as well as Chevrolet & GM parts history manuals. The NCRS forum has even helped me in recent years. There are 3 very important words to remember before you purchase original parts: Research, Research, and Research. Over the last 30 or more years I have bought parts by mistake but you just bite the bullet and then move on.

Also, beware of vendors selling NOS 64 Corvette parts using a 1981 Corvette parts catalog as a reference. A 1964 Chevrolet parts catalog would be much more accurate but still not perfect.

[Michael H.]

Re: '64 Replacement Outside Mirror

Is the problem the width of the snap ring or the depth of the groove that it fits into? I have a few NOS snap rings here that I can measure.

[Scott S.]

Re: '64 Replacement Outside Mirror

Scott, good point. One of my club member contacted me last night with the same idea. Are there any directions or recommendations of removing the snap rings? I don't want to tear up my glass.

Hi Dale,

Generally speaking, it is my understanding that there are several springs behind the mirror-glass pushing it outward against the snap-ring, and to remove the mirror-glass, one should press down on the mirror-glass slightly, creating a small gap between the mirror-glass and the snap-ring, and then carefully (using a tool of some sort) pull the snap-ring out of the mirror-housing. This should allow the mirror-glass to be removed.

My original mirror is pitted around the inner mirror-glass rim and the glass appears to be "frozen" to the snap-ring and/or outer mirror-housing (or the snap-ring is frozen to the outer mirror-housing). If there is a way to remove the snap-ring and mirror-glass in such a condition without breaking either one, I would like to do that. Suggestions are welcome

[John H.]

Re: '64 Replacement Outside Mirror

I have another member in our club that is building a '61 to be judged. Yesterday several of us went over to review the frame and engine. We found a lot of issues and he had purchased many parts that are not correct. Several oil pans, started motor with incorrect date and screw, incorrect carburetors, incorrect bolts and etc. He has spend thousand of dollars worth of parts that must be replaced. Even his motor must be redone. This is hurting our clubs and discouraging people from doing these projects. I really feel sorry for this person, you should have seen him yesterday.

Any ideas how our members can better determined what they are buying??????? (before they purchase and throw them away)

Yes. You have to know what you need, and know what you're buying before you buy it; many folks new to the hobby want "new" parts for their restoration, and order them based on vendor (or eBay seller) descriptions and usages, without researching each part first, and are frequently disappointed. Accurate restorations take LOTS more time than many of those new to the hobby understand due to the research and knowledge required, which can't be gained overnight or in catalogs. If you haven't fondled an original part and assessed exactly what it looks like and how it was made, you shouldn't just write checks and order a "new" one from catalogs if you expect it to fly in judging. "Show-n-Shine" judging is a LOT different than originality judging.

[Scott S.]

Re: '64 Replacement Outside Mirror

I have another member in our club that is building a '61 to be judged. Yesterday several of us went over to review the frame and engine. We found a lot of issues and he had purchased many parts that are not correct. Several oil pans, started motor with incorrect date and screw, incorrect carburetors, incorrect bolts and etc. He has spend thousand of dollars worth of parts that must be replaced. Even his motor must be redone. This is hurting our clubs and discouraging people from doing these projects. I really feel sorry for this person, you should have seen him yesterday.

Any ideas how our members can better determined what they are buying??????? (before they purchase and throw them away)

I'm sorry about your friend's situation, I can relate. If he has purchased good parts that are simply not correct for his car, he should be able to minimize his losses by taking inventory, correctly identifying what he has, and then selling them to someone else who needs them. Between the NCRS Driveline, the free classified section on the CF and connections within your local chapter, he might be able to accomplish this fairly quickly. In the process of accurately identifying what he currently has, he will also learn what he actually needs, and will probably come across many of those parts while he's unloading his own.

Assessing the problem and taking action to correct the situation should help to get past this set-back and regain positive momentum. The time he has invested is not lost, it's hard-earned education that will serve him well as the restoration progresses.

[Dale M.]

Re: '64 Replacement Outside Mirror

Is the problem the width of the snap ring or the depth of the groove that it fits into? I have a few NOS snap rings here that I can measure.

Its the width of the snap ring. It is covering about 1/8 inch of the mirror around the outside edge. I have my old one (not sure its original, no date) and it barely hangs out at all.

I am going to try to remove mine and use my old one. Any advice or removing them?

Thanks for you help.

[Bob J.]

Re: '64 Replacement Outside Mirror

Its the width of the snap ring. It is covering about 1/8 inch of the mirror around the outside edge. I have my old one (not sure its original, no date) and it barely hangs out at all.

I am going to try to remove mine and use my old one. Any advice or removing them?

Thanks for you help.

Dale, I'm curious what month your 64 was built? Bob

[Dale M.]

Re: '64 Replacement Outside Mirror

Thank You for a lot of great advice. This may be something we want to cover at one of our meetings.

Paragon is a great company, I am not knocking them. They will likely take my mirror back, but I hope to swap the snap ring. This is really my mistake, I was ordering a lot of other parts based on recommendations and i just drop the mirror in the order without doing my research.

Thank you Everyone

[Dale M.]

Re: '64 Replacement Outside Mirror

Dale, I'm curious what month your 64 was built? Bob

Bob, Build date of March 20th (C20). It was raced back in the 70's in SCCA and I know that it received a 1st place at Mid Ohio in B/Stock and a 4th place year at the National Solo II Championship in Lake Geneva. Ed Schneider was the owner. He passed away in the mid 80's and I am not married to his wife. Its an AO Smith, L-75, 4 speed.