AC lids - have you ever looked closely?

[Ronald L.]

I recently had an issue with a 'guaranteed 1966 original AC lid'.

Lid metal and chrome aside, there are two items that separate 1966-7 originals from the re-pop, that being the labels and silk screening.

To the casual eye the silk screen on this now "suspect" lid was flat and perfect like it was printed with a modern laser printer.

In looking at these closer, 5x magnification, the 66 and 67 known original lids have one form of printing and what this "suspect lid" had as far as a silk screen was interesting - you can see the individual dots of the printing.

Here are the photos...one on left is the suspect part, right, known original.

Anyone have pictures of an original 427 label?

[Scott S.]

Re: AC lids - have you ever looked closely?

It's like CSI.

Corvette Scene Investigation

[Scott S.]

Re: AC lids - have you ever looked closely?

To the casual eye the silk screen on this now "suspect" lid was flat and perfect like it was printed with a modern laser printer.

In looking at these closer, 5x magnification, the 66 and 67 known original lids have one form of printing and what this "suspect lid" had as far as a silk screen was interesting - you can see the individual dots of the printing.

Here are the photos...one on left is the suspect part, right, known original.

Ron, I took some pictures of what I think is the original 1967 L79 air cleaner lid instructions, the print is not only thick enough to feel when you run your fingers over it, it's thick enough to actually see that the lettering is raised above the surface of the metal, "3-D", if you look at it closely.

[William C.]

Re: AC lids - have you ever looked closely?

Notice also the size of the "AC" letters relative to the diameter of the circle. Typically the originals will fill the entire circle to include the letters actually touching the edge of the circle, as opposed to the separation in the "suspect" part.

[Russ S.]

Re: AC lids - have you ever looked closely?

Anyone know apprx. when repo air cleaner lids came onto the scene? I have had my lid for thirty years but the silk screen doesn't look like it has near as high of a build as the above pics.

[William C.]

Re: AC lids - have you ever looked closely?

I've seen variations on the build on various real lids. I wouldn't be too concerned over that aspect.

[Russ S.]

Re: AC lids - have you ever looked closely?

I've seen variations on the build on various real lids. I wouldn't be too concerned over that aspect.

Thanks Bill, My 30+ year old lid has very fine printing compared to the above pics and the AC doesn't touch the sides of the circle. It also has a tiny opening in the A, very similar to the 1st pic posted of the questionable lid Ron posted. if I knew how to attach a pic I would.

[Scott S.]

Re: AC lids - have you ever looked closely?

Hi Russ,

There are a couple ways to attach pictures. If you want to upload them to the forum so they appear as thumbnails (the way mine did above) this is the process.

1. On the screen where you normally type in your posts, scroll down below the "Submit Reply" button until you see the "Manage Attachments" button. Click on the "Manage Attachments".

2. To upload a picture file from your computer, click "Browse" in the "Manage Attachments" pop-up box, then search through your files until you find the picture you want to upload.

3. Double-click on the picture you want, which should automatically insert the File Path in the correct space of the "Manage Attachments" pop-up box.

4. Click "Upload", and wait about 30 seconds or longer, depending on the speed of your Internet connection, until the pop-up box shows that the picture file has been accepted.

I think that's it. If you click "Preview Post", you should be able to see whether your picture loaded properly.

[Michael J.]

Re: AC lids - have you ever looked closely?

Anyone have pictures of an original 427 label?

Here are some from my original '67 L71

[William C.]

Re: AC lids - have you ever looked closely?

here's a picture of a real 396 version.

[Ronald L.]

Re: AC lids - have you ever looked closely?

William, So nice to see that '65 lid! And in all these examples added, the printing is visibly thick and you can see that depth in the photos.

Russ, if you have access to a 5x magnification and the text looks like a dot matrix print, it is the 1990+ technology, and BTW, I have looked at a 2008 dated Paragon A212CW with this same technique and we see the same fine precise dot matrix pattern on the filters BEST WAY TO printing.

Here is what I know about what happened when:

The plant that made the assembly (the part number that appears in the AIM) was productive into the 70's and early 80's under the AC Spark Plug Division branding with the components coming from other AC plants in Flint.

I have recently seen an example of a AC Rochester assembly and that part could only have been produced after AC SP and Rochester were combined, 1988 if memory serves correct. I would say that shortly thereafter, 90-94 time frame these tools were acquired by Paragon.

If any one has saved catalogs from that period...that may define the start date exactly.

[Russ S.]

Re: AC lids - have you ever looked closely?

Here is the best pic i could get due to reflection of the silk screening on my 30 year old A/C lid 66 327

Thanks Scott for the directions on attaching the pic.

[Ronald L.]

Re: AC lids - have you ever looked closely?

Russ, Hard to say if it has been cleaned too many times or it is the look of the "reproduction" screening. A 5x snap shot should tell us.

The big box stores trade parts, so it did not have to come from Paragon to be their part.

There is also a situation I have seen on service parts where some time post 1974 the lids no longer had the silk screen logo. Since my focus has been late C2 and early C3, I usually have not kept data for parts in the late 70's and early 80's as the filter and lid were very different 10 years after the car was built.

[William C.]

Re: AC lids - have you ever looked closely?

Russ, looks hard to tell from the picture, but I think I'm looking at the bottom right leg of the "A" touching or very close to the ring, as well as the top left of the opening on the "C". Would be very consistent with the other originals shown.

[John C.]

Re: AC lids - have you ever looked closely?

Ron

The printing on the reproduction lids is still done by silk-screening as on the originals.

With the silkscreen process the ink is squeezed through a fine screen to create the image. The wear on the screen and the amount of ink squeezed through will make a difference in the result seen.

In a production environment I'm sure speed took precedence over perfection and the screens were used for as long as they could still be read. Most if not all of the originals I have seen have had a lot of ink squeezed through. This results in the raised ink affect you see, the lack of visible screen lines in the printed area, and the somewhat blurry printing.

On the reproduction I'm sure the screen is getting a lot less usage. They also seem to go easy on the ink. This produces a more readable image that is flatter. I believe what you are seeing as dots in your magnification is simply the screen lines.

So just because you see the screen lines and the ink is not raised as high as others, I don't think you can automatically rule it out as a reproduction. The age of screen being used and operators technique are all going to be a factor.

John