New level of ridiculousness on eBay?

[John M.]

Re: New level of ridiculousness on eBay?

Im surprized at this one myself, this hose would be hard to copy (not the stamp) but the hose, its a very stout hose you cant squeeze shut by pinching it and has a diffrent look to it, the repos or current GM parts I have seen are not the same but will pass judging in most cases, it was bought by a very regular poster on this fourm, he seems to be a very intellegent person...............Thanks John

[Ridge K.]

Re: New level of ridiculousness on eBay?

I don't think the original post was suggesting that the "seller" ( who has now been identified as a NCRS member) is morally bankrupt or a fiendish person. I took it as a commentary on just how stupidly high prices can get when we continually place higher and higher values on originality ! As stated already, the seller clearly met his obligation by placing the starting bid amount at a very reasonable price. The buyer(s) then drove the price up to what it sold for in the end.
From a "devil's advocate"/philosophical point of view it seems to me that the more emphasis we place on having everything absolutely the way it was rolling out of the factory then is it any wonder that someone out there has the audacity to ask 2 grand for a used oil pan !?! Yeah, it's true, the market will determine the price someone eventually pays for it ,but it still doesn't excuse the sellers' greed (in my opinion).
What role do we as NCRS members play in all of this? My guess is that the average enthusiast would gasp at the value we often place on the smallest of details and which are routinely discussed and debated here on a daily basis.
Whatever happened to asking a "fair" price for things ?
Now I recognize the definition of "fair" can be stretched to certain limits by those with selfish motives, but I challenge anyone here on this site to defend the actions of opportunistic gougers whose sole goal it seems is to get as much money as they possibly can for the items they sell.
I have a conscience and while I am well aware of how much used, original, rare parts can be worth for our cars I still believe we all have a responsibility to one another to factor in things such as what we have invested in the item as well as change in value (appreciation) due to real (not imagined or inflated) market trends - and from that hopefully we derive a "fair" price, one that yields a healthy profit for the seller and a decent value for the buyer.
And while I could just as easily blame younger generations for this change in attitude I've come across more than my fair share of 'ol timers at meets, classified ads, etc asking insanely high prices for things that they purchased/invested for a fraction of what they are expecting to now get for these surplus items. The irony (or should I say hypocrisy) of it all is that sometimes these are the same guys lamenting about fading comaraderie and brotherhood in our collective passion for these cars. Sometimes our extremist views on originality can cause a skewed perception of worth - so in the end, I guess, collectively we all reap what we sow !

Thanks for letting me vent !

Rick, I must respectfully disagree 100% with your labels of "selfish motives", "gougers", "audacity to ask", nor understand the concept of.... one's opinion of what a "healthy profit" is. I see your membership is registered as one of our good neighbors and brothers to the north (Canada).
These high prices asked, are for what are in many cases are very, very rare NOS parts. Textbook example of American capitalism. The same type of capitalism that has in a large way contributed to the magnetic draw of millions and millions of imigrants wishing to come, live in, ...and prosper in the United States. The very nation that has experienced the creation of more millionaires than every other nation on earth, combined.
We could probably all agree that no one is forced to pay any asked price. The price is out there, for consenting adults to determine for themselves whether or not to purchase. I have paid those ridiculous prices myself. I won't even state right here what I personally paid for the NOS intake manifold I desperately wanted for my own '67 Corvette (with the perfect casting date for my original assembly date. I paid the outlandish price, ..... simply because I wanted it. Very obviously, that date under the intake could never be judged. I won't state the price paid, because I don't wish to be the storyline for the "guy lacking sense".
Once again with upmost respect, ....I'll take American capitalism over any other "ism" on earth. I don't think I'm alone on that thought.

Ridge.

[Larry T.]

Re: New level of ridiculousness on eBay?

Well, I hope I did not offend the buyer with my initial post. I now know who bought it, and he may be thinking I am a bit of a hypocrite since he recently watched me pay a whole lot of money for a part that we were both interested in. Most of you would think I was crazy as well I guess, but he and I thought it made sense.

I looked at the bid history and the fact is four guys were willing to pay more than $225 for it and two were willing to pay over $375. Not just two guys duking it out like I initially assumed.

Now that I am done with my mea culpa, the lessons for me here are to keep my foot out of my mouth and that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Enjoy the part.

[Rick B.]

Re: New level of ridiculousness on eBay?

Ridge, it amazes me how you could read my post then look at my profile and immediately deduce that my comments are in some strange way attached to an attack on capitalism or the opportunities to prosper that the United States has given so many immigrants, as you put it !!! Canada's economy also works on the very same principles of capitalism but thank you for clarifying that as until now I was unaware that there was a difference between "American capitalism" and "Canadian capitalism".

If you are unclear as to what a "healthy profit " might be defined as I would suggest you re-read my post and look at the factors I suggested that the seller take into consideration in determining his price. I could take it further for the sake of argument and say that profit up to, let's say 500% could be considered as "healthy" and profit in the area of 1000%+ is getting into the category I would deem as "obscene" , but that's just plucking numbers out of the air as every case will be different! The exact example I referred to was the used oil pan going for $2000. Is there another category I was not aware of called "Used NOS" that justifies the seller asking this price??? It's a used oil pan that's not even identical to the original !!!

If you care to know where my views on "gouging" and "selfish motives" come from it has to do with the fact that as a policeman for 25 years I have seen more than my fair share of morally bankrupt, greedy, unscrupulous people then I ever care to recount. Yet all of these people felt strangely justified in what they did.

Gouging is gouging....and if you need a few more examples to properly place into perspective what I was trying to convey, then here it is :

How do you feel about a mechanic that would charge an unsuspecting female ( your college age daughter for the sake of example ) $7 per tire + tax for adding air in her tires ? Think I'm making that up? I wish I was ! That same mechanic worked for a large automotive-service chain and would never have tried that on a guy but felt perfectly justified in doing it to this complainant and refused to release the car until the invoice was paid .
How would you feel if your loving wife was trying to buy you something special for your birthday and went to a local swap meet looking for a "rare" Corvette part that would be a much appreciated surprise . She pays the seller his asking price for the item and proudly gives it to you later on. After curiosity getting the better of you, after awhile you ask and find out she paid about 9 or 10 times what you would've paid for it. Would you still be cheering on the seller and praising him for getting as much as he could for the item?

[Ridge K.]

Re: New level of ridiculousness on eBay?

Im surprized at this one myself, this hose would be hard to copy (not the stamp) but the hose, its a very stout hose you cant squeeze shut by pinching it and has a diffrent look to it, the repos or current GM parts I have seen are not the same but will pass judging in most cases, it was bought by a very regular poster on this fourm, he seems to be a very intellegent person...............Thanks John

I salute John for being one of the few remaining good sources for those in the hobby who are unable to spend a full-time job tracking down rare parts. Through the years I have bought several parts from John, and found his honesty & integrity to be impeccable.
Some on here are aware that I acquired, bought, and resold vintage Corvette and muscle car parts for quite a few years. I did this as a hobby, after retiring from a public safety job, Every years I would drive the swap meet circuit from the California coast, to as far east as Carlisle, Pennsylvania. Every single year I would put 10,000+ miles on my vehicle in this mission of parts acquisition. From swap meets, to knocking on the doors of "leads". Forgetting the miles travelled for a moment, my expenditures would be carefully logged at an average of $10K per year. And that was before $4.00 a gallon fuel costs. In those early days, it would cost on average, about 5% of sale price to sell on the largest internet auction site. After the former CEO of that site retired, ....that seller cost soared to 13% to 15%. Some tell me it's closer to 20% today.
The occasional sale of a rare, small hose for $380, would many times only make up for the twenty five other auction sales at closed at losses. Of course, ..... we rarely hear of those "too cheap" auction wins.
I loved the business, much like I'm sure John does. Finding that super rare part that someone desperately needs to complete their restoration was very rewarding. I could tell stories here of finding a few parts that I am quite certain were in the category of only a half dozen left in existence. I quit the business shortly after Meg Whitman's retirement, with $250K in closed sales. My average customer would be a hobbyist who was unable to leave his own work to travel and search for parts. Several members can relate to that.

Since my leaving, I've seen many other superb sources for parts simply leave. John is one of the few with top integrity still selling. One could probably count the good sellers left on one hand at this point.
I hope that John doesn't become one more "former parts dealers", as it would be quite a loss to the hobby, as well as those unable to search the country for original used and NOS parts

Ridge

[Pat M.]

Re: New level of ridiculousness on eBay?

Every single year I would put 10,000+ miles on my vehicle in this mission of parts acquisition. From swap meets, to knocking on the doors of "leads". Forgetting the miles travelled for a moment, my expenditures would be carefully logged at an average of $10K per year. And that was before $4.00 a gallon fuel costs.

I salute John for being one of the few remaining good sources for those in the hobby who are unable to spend a full-time job tracking down rare parts. Through the years I have bought several parts from John, and found his honesty & integrity to be impeccable.

That's what I've always loved about Ebay: I don't have to go through the time, expense and effort to track down parts I can't easily find. I sit in the comfort of my home, shop, and then the part is sent to my doorstep. IMO even significant added costs are WELL worth it in the long run. And of course I have the option of not buying any part whose costs seem too high even to me.

And I've also bought parts from John, and I agree completely with the above statement. He's a super seller selling super parts.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: New level of ridiculousness on eBay?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

The same seller had one go last week for only $105.00.

I have read all the posts here & would like to know why anyone gives a rats ass what someone will pay for anything. This goes for Corvettes,parts, coins,paintings,ETC. Look at what happened to the housing market. I tried to sell a 67/435 white/teal conv. original drive train & paper work for 25,000 at BG years ago & was told I wanted WAY TOO MUCH! Anything is worth what a person will pay for it & what someone will sell it for. One mans treasure is anothers junk. Are we making fun of precieved fools or are we the fools in the long run. I say let a person spend his money anyway he wants unless he is spending yours. Let the buyer decide & the rest of us keep quiet unless ask buy the person that spent the money.
KEN

[Stan E.]

Re: New level of ridiculousness on eBay?

It's an AUCTION! John calls it straight and can't help what fools do. Fallow the bid history.

[Dick W.]

Re: New level of ridiculousness on eBay?

And then there was the item that had a starting bid of $.01. I bid $2.00 max, no one bid against me and I got it for $.01. The item is sitting on my desk as I type this.

As an auctioneer, I can tell you that something is worth no more than what someone is willing to pay for it.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: New level of ridiculousness on eBay?

And then there was the item that had a starting bid of $.01. I bid $2.00 max, no one bid against me and I got it for $.01. The item is sitting on my desk as I type this.

As an auctioneer, I can tell you that something is worth no more than what someone is willing to pay for it.

AMEN BROTHER! I do think you did pay WAY too much though for what you bought. Wait I don't know what you bought. Well never mind you paid too much. LOL
KEN

[Rick B.]

Re: New level of ridiculousness on eBay?

Thank you Stan for stating what shouldn't have to have been said but which puts things, in this instance, back into proper perspective once again !
It was indeed an auction ! The seller had no role whatsoever in what it eventually went for. He more than set a fair reserve/starting price on the object and he cannot be possibly faulted in anyway whatsoever for what the bidders were eventually willing to pay. That's the beauty of an auction.
John's integrity has clearly been supported by many on this site and when I read everyone's comments I do not come away thinking that his decency, ethical stance or right to sell anything he chooses was being challenged. Instead I took it as that particular item being used as a starting point for a healthy discussion on what even some of us "purists" are surprised by what an item would fetch. I believe John stated earlier that even he too was caught off-gaurd by what it went for !
Now if he had it sitting out on a table, at a meet with a $380 price tag on it from the start then that might be different thing.....but he didn't !!!
In the end no one forces anyone to buy/pay anything they do not want to or feel comfortable paying - the rules of supply and demand take care of that. But commenting, expressing and voicing opinions about their surprise or shock for what an item would go for shouldn't be discouraged either - providing it is not a personal attack. Otherwise we might as well all drink the "kool aid" of being politically correct for fear of offending someone.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: New level of ridiculousness on eBay?

Thank you Stan for stating what shouldn't have to have been said but which puts things, in this instance, back into proper perspective once again !
It was indeed an auction ! The seller had no role whatsoever in what it eventually went for. He more than set a fair reserve/starting price on the object and he cannot be possibly faulted in anyway whatsoever for what the bidders were eventually willing to pay. That's the beauty of an auction.
John's integrity has clearly been supported by many on this site and when I read everyone's comments I do not come away thinking that his decency, ethical stance or right to sell anything he chooses was being challenged. Instead I took it as that particular item being used as a starting point for a healthy discussion on what even some of us "purists" are surprised by what an item would fetch. I believe John stated earlier that even he too was caught off-gaurd by what it went for !
Now if he had it sitting out on a table, at a meet with a $380 price tag on it from the start then that might be different thing.....but he didn't !!!
In the end no one forces anyone to buy/pay anything they do not want to or feel comfortable paying - the rules of supply and demand take care of that. But commenting, expressing and voicing opinions about their surprise or shock for what an item would go for shouldn't be discouraged either - providing it is not a personal attack. Otherwise we might as well all drink the "kool aid" of being politically correct for fear of offending someone.

RICK
I do agree but the original post stated it was a ridiculousness price meaning someone paid stupid money for a part. What purpose dose this serve. If it was stated that thy were surprised at the price it brought then it was a non judgmental comment. This way it was a statement that someone was stupid to pay that much for that part. There is no other way to look at it. I see these threads on the CF all the time about how people pay too much at BJ & other auctions. Everyone seems to want to be a armchair appraiser & none of us are.
KEN

[Rick B.]

Re: New level of ridiculousness on eBay?

I would agree with you wholeheartedly if you tend to dissect every single thread word-for-word and question why this user chose to use this word rather than another, etc.
When the thread caught my eye it was pure, unadulterated curiosity that made me read, then comment on what was being discussed. I sure didn't jump into the discussion because I perceived it to be an attack on a specific buyer or seller. Quite the opposite in fact, given that a few examples were presented and everyone seemed to be discussing the topic in terms of generality.

For me anyway, somewhere along the line life got way too complicated when we began to hang on every single word others spoke to us and take offence where none may be intended. Again, I can't speak for the choice of the word "ridiculous" in this thread, nor can I argue that a softer, kinder, gentler word could've/should've been chosen, but if there was never an intent to demean or belittle anyone but rather editorialize about an item(s) that would likely ( and which by the "read count" did) generate some healthy feedback and discussion, then what better place to discuss it then on this Corvette Forum ! I can't think of any other site or organization that , on a regular basis, discusses and answers the finest ( and yes, shall I dare say "trivial"?) points on corvette restoration?

I am admittedly one of the most anally retentive perfectionists out there and yet even I have to healthily laugh at myself at times on my quest for accurate restoration on my cars. I too rely on vendors selling their wares and look for the holy grail of parts once in awhile. But hey, given that if anyone can appreciate the value of hard-to-find parts it will most certainly be an NCRS member, then is it not natural to comment and discuss such a topic here on this site?

Healthy debate is critical to the advancement of us all, whether in our personal lives or in this circle where we discuss our passion for the restoration of our cars.

Now, anybody know where I can find four NOS valve stem caps for no more than $100 ?

[Joe L.]

Re: New level of ridiculousness on eBay?

I salute John for being one of the few remaining good sources for those in the hobby who are unable to spend a full-time job tracking down rare parts. Through the years I have bought several parts from John, and found his honesty & integrity to be impeccable.
Some on here are aware that I acquired, bought, and resold vintage Corvette and muscle car parts for quite a few years. I did this as a hobby, after retiring from a public safety job, Every years I would drive the swap meet circuit from the California coast, to as far east as Carlisle, Pennsylvania. Every single year I would put 10,000+ miles on my vehicle in this mission of parts acquisition. From swap meets, to knocking on the doors of "leads". Forgetting the miles travelled for a moment, my expenditures would be carefully logged at an average of $10K per year. And that was before $4.00 a gallon fuel costs. In those early days, it would cost on average, about 5% of sale price to sell on the largest internet auction site. After the former CEO of that site retired, ....that seller cost soared to 13% to 15%. Some tell me it's closer to 20% today.
The occasional sale of a rare, small hose for $380, would many times only make up for the twenty five other auction sales at closed at losses. Of course, ..... we rarely hear of those "too cheap" auction wins.
I loved the business, much like I'm sure John does. Finding that super rare part that someone desperately needs to complete their restoration was very rewarding. I could tell stories here of finding a few parts that I am quite certain were in the category of only a half dozen left in existence. I quit the business shortly after Meg Whitman's retirement, with $250K in closed sales. My average customer would be a hobbyist who was unable to leave his own work to travel and search for parts. Several members can relate to that.

Since my leaving, I've seen many other superb sources for parts simply leave. John is one of the few with top integrity still selling. One could probably count the good sellers left on one hand at this point.
I hope that John doesn't become one more "former parts dealers", as it would be quite a loss to the hobby, as well as those unable to search the country for original used and NOS parts

Ridge

Ridge-----


I agree.

[Joe L.]

Re: New level of ridiculousness on eBay?

Im surprized at this one myself, this hose would be hard to copy (not the stamp) but the hose, its a very stout hose you cant squeeze shut by pinching it and has a diffrent look to it, the repos or current GM parts I have seen are not the same but will pass judging in most cases, it was bought by a very regular poster on this fourm, he seems to be a very intellegent person...............Thanks John

John-----


I had no idea there was that much difference between the original hoses and current hoses with respect to construction, but I take your word for it.