GM - Back to Old Ways

[Chuck W.]

Re: GM - Back to Old Ways

Quoting from the article:

"Barra [49], a veteran engineer who has been with GM for more than 30 years, was vice president of global human resources since 2009, helping the company through management turmoil that included four chief executives in less than two years. Before that she was a plant manager and held a number of engineering and management posts."

So if I can still do fourth grade arithmetic: 49-30 = 19.

She joined GM at 19!? ...must be some kind of prodigy. Or maybe she was a GMI co-op student.

Maybe Hinckley knows her.

BTW, have you looked at the color palettes for some mainstream cars - all those washed out pastels. That tells you who is making the decisions.

I think Ford's "car czar" is also female.

Duke

Barra was a GMI, graduated in either 84 or 85. My wife remembers her when she was there.

[Dale C.]

Re: GM - Back to Old Ways

I don’t even like to recall the memories on this subject, but having retired from a flying career in both military and civil aviation I can assure you that the watering down of the standard, to facilitate political correctness has (and is) happening, and it is a definite determent to unit cohesion and mission effectiveness, especially on the military side. I could spend hours kicking around the pro and cons of women in combat but the bottom line is that most of us, that have had combat experience, know it’s not the place you want to be, and you damn sure don’t want your mother or daughter in the mix. You don’t particularly want you sons there either. I guess it’s also kind of like the gender exclusion of pros ports, why do you think that is, and it’s damn sure more critical in the life / death combat environment. Boy I sure get on my horse about this. Now it’s time for another stage in the compromise of our national heritage and the integrity of our traditional values. I guess the bottom line is as problematic as it is to be in the foxhole with a female, hunkered down on a dark night with bullets flying overhead; it’s going to get even dicier in today’s Army. Just keep your heads down. I also see they now want to open up all combat specialties to the fairer sex, another bad idea. Not all his change is good. Sorry if I stepped on some toes, but if I’m wrong here please enlighten me as I don’t want to worry about our military bearing the brunt of this social experimentation all for the sake of political correctness. To keep it germane I guess maybe that's why I drive corvettes. To put a face on it, that is my son and me and sorry about the picture as it is quite fuzzy. My concern is for him as he still serves.
Dale

[Domenic T.]

Re: GM - Back to Old Ways

I'm comin in again,

I don't care what color or gender you are but if you want the job you should pass the same test every one else has to pass and be the best qualified for the job.
When I was working in Chicago in the 60's you had to be 6' tall 170 lbs to be a police, NO exceptions.
Now on TV a dainty police person out runs a buff criminal and bangs him against the wall and cuffs him.
My wife is 5'and could have been a fire person or cop here in CA.
Now would you want to be in a burning building and see her come up the ladder to carry you down.
I was asked to show some airplane parts to a private pilot ground school.
There was a girl in her early 30's in the class with a cast on her arm. I asked her how it happened after kidding her about calculating weight & balance on her arm.
She said it happened in jail which brought up a red flag with me wanting to know how one could just get out of jail and try and gett a pilots licence.
She told me that she was a police officer working in the jail when a male prisoner reached thru the bars and grabbed her arm snapping it below the elbow.
If we want to help one that is not as fortunate as another get a job then we should make the school & training available to them , but may the best PERSON win.

DOM

[Chuck W.]

Re: GM - Back to Old Ways

I am amazed that the year is 2011 and we profess equal rights for all people. We are clearly a very diverse thinking club.

I am also a GMI grad and worked for GM in my early career. I saw many men and women wash out of the program. It had to do with the program and not their gender.

I believe vehicle color selections are still determined by design marketing focus groups to steer products toward selected market segments. They are not chosen because they are the design teams favorite colors.

Lastly, if I were in a burning building, I would prefer a female firefighter rescue me because she would ask for directions on how to get out.

Lets talk about Roger B Smith's influence, contribution, and effect on GM. Oh, by the way, he was a white male.

[John D.]

Re: GM - Back to Old Ways

If her main focus is to speed up the vehicle development process as was said in the Wall Street Journal yesterday she's well suited for the job based on her experience.

The question is will she be the one making the decisions on what vehicles GM will make and the styling and features they contain ? This in my opinion takes a person with many years experience in that regard with an innate feel for the tastes of customer wants and needs....long live Bob Lutz........

[Chuck S.]

Re: GM - Back to Old Ways

...Lets talk about Roger B Smith's influence, contribution, and effect on GM. Oh, by the way, he was a white male.

Chuck, in no way did I begin this thread by making a comment on her gender...only on her resume. Her promotion looks more like a Roger Smith decision than one by Bob Lutz'...just sayin'.

Her promotion should be strictly based on her qualification, and that's what I think most comments here are saying...no special treatment for anyone. Most of us have seen careers of good people curtailed to move less qualified minorities and women into higher levels...it was a fact of life that was documented by their later failure in lower and middle management.

To me, her resume does not appear strong for this job, but we don't know what those "other management positions" were...maybe she did work under Lutz prior to becoming VP. This job is so critical that the CEO should have demanded someone with DEMONSTRATED skills at the senior level. Equal rights laboratory activity should be suspended until they are out of this crisis.

I can't believe GM's bench is so shallow that they had to promote a VP of global human resources into that critical job...forget gender, forget race, religion, whatever. It's all about performance...this person has a shot to prove herself. If she fails, GM fails...it's that simple; you can kiss GM and your taxpayer bailout money goodbye; it'll be dejavu all over again. Eleven billion is already gone...Treasury idiots sold their common stock as soon as the IPO happened; locked in losses at $33/share. It was going to take $44 to get our money back.

[Chuck W.]

Re: GM - Back to Old Ways

Chuck, in no way did I begin this thread by making a comment on her gender...only on her resume. Her promotion looks more like a Roger Smith decision than one by Bob Lutz'...just sayin'.

Her promotion should be strictly based on her qualification, and that's what I think most comments here are saying...no special treatment for anyone. Most of us have seen careers of good people curtailed to move less qualified minorities and women into higher levels...it was a fact of life that was documented by their later failure in lower and middle management.

To me, her resume does not appear strong for this job, but we don't know what those "other management positions" were...maybe she did work under Lutz prior to becoming VP. This job is so critical that the CEO should have demanded someone with DEMONSTRATED skills at the senior level. Equal rights laboratory activity should be suspended until they are out of this crisis.

I can't believe GM's bench is so shallow that they had to promote a VP of global human resources into that critical job...forget gender, forget race, religion, whatever. It's all about performance...this person has a shot to prove herself. If she fails, GM fails...it's that simple; you can kiss GM and your taxpayer bailout money goodbye; it'll be dejavu all over again. Eleven billion is already gone...Treasury idiots sold their common stock as soon as the IPO happened; locked in losses at $33/share. It was going to take $44 to get our money back.

I am not here to defend or criticize this particular selection by GM. Only to say that without proper research and knowledge of this or any other candidates promotion to this position within GM, insinuations regarding gender, race, religion or the like are irresponsible and prejudicial to say the least.

I don't personally know Mary Barra however from googling and reading her bio it seems to me that her experience is a bit more than just in human resources...

"Mary Barra was named Vice President, Global Human Resources on July 30, 2009. She is a member of the Executive Committee and reports to CEO, Daniel Akerson.
Prior to this appointment, Barra had been GM Vice President, Global Manufacturing Engineering since February 2008. She has also held the positions of Executive Director, Vehicle Manufacturing Engineering where she had global responsibility for the General Assembly; Controls, Conveyors, Robotics and Welding; Paint and Polymer, and Advanced Vehicle Development Centers, as well as Industrial Engineering, Global Manufacturing System Implementation and Pre-Production Operations.
She has also held a number of engineering and staff positions, including Plant Manager, Detroit Hamtramck Assembly Plant; Executive Director of Competitive Operations Engineering; Business Manager for Corporate Staffs; and General Director of Internal Communications for GM North America.
Barra began her career with General Motors in 1980 as a General Motors Institute (Kettering University) co-op student at the Pontiac Motor Division. She graduated with a Bachelor of Science degree in electrical engineering. In 1988, Barra received a GM fellowship to the Stanford Graduate School of Business and in 1990 graduated with an MBA in Business Administration.
She serves on the Board of Trustees at Kettering University, and is Key Executive for Stanford University."

Personally, I don't know what resume you or anyone else has read but I believe that her credentials speak for themself. As far as the depth of GM's bench, I think you would be surprised how few really exceptional candidates remain at GM after all that they have put themselves through in the past few decades. Many left long ago for a variety of reasons, the least of which I would venture to say was EEO related. As a fellow GMI grad and Tau Beta Pi member, I'm going to give Barra the benefit of the doubt before I cast her into the EEO bucket.

EVERYONE in the world has been discriminated against at one time or another and for some reason or another. Some much more than others. I don't believe the solution is to immediately yell foul when an opposing gender, race, or religion obtains an advantage.

Personally, I wrote off my tax money put towards GM and Chrysler long before this announcement. Placing the entire weight of that on Mary Barra or any other single individual within those organizations is a bit naive.

I remember my Dad's response to me, when I was a kid and over generalized... "All Indians walk in a single file line... especially the one that I saw."

Why don't we give Mary Barra a shot before we declare "GM - Back to Old Ways"... just sayin!

[Ridge K.]

Re: GM - Back to Old Ways

I am amazed that the year is 2011 and we profess equal rights for all people. We are clearly a very diverse thinking club.

I am also a GMI grad and worked for GM in my early career. I saw many men and women wash out of the program. It had to do with the program and not their gender.

I believe vehicle color selections are still determined by design marketing focus groups to steer products toward selected market segments. They are not chosen because they are the design teams favorite colors.

Lastly, if I were in a burning building, I would prefer a female firefighter rescue me because she would ask for directions on how to get out.

Lets talk about Roger B Smith's influence, contribution, and effect on GM. Oh, by the way, he was a white male.

Chuck, your opinion is as valid as anyone's on the entire TDB. Likewise, I respect it as much as any other poster. I've never had the pleasure of meeting you, but would love to ....as I have heard many discussions of your well-known, top notch restorations.

During my 29 years on a muncipal fire department (27 of which, in front-line fire suppression including four different ranks), I had one of the top birds-eye viewpoints on this in all of America. I served as Chief of Training & Human Resources for the 700 member Tulsa Fire Deartment in 1995/1996. I personally followed orders by the then Fire Chief and then Mayor to dismantle ...the 95 year old physical fitness requirements used in considerations in hiring of new fire recruits.
After these time and battle tested physical requirements were dismantled, I personally oversaw the departments job evaluations of individual members of the fire suppression division. During my tenure, I worked side-by-side with my counterparts within the 1,000 member Tulsa Police Department as they likewise were ordered to dismantle their hiring requirements.

I hope to be able to meet you in person someday. Not just to admire your excellent state of the art restoration work. But also with the hope that we can sit down over your choice of beverage .... and discuss some critical emergency services issues I think you will find very, very interesting. Some issues that could affect not only your life, but also the lives of those family members, friends, neighbors, and other loved ones.
I discuss these issues with any good friend or fellow club member in person only, as I do not feel it would be appropriate for me to comment on this on a technical discussion board. I respect the stated mission of the TDB.

Ridge Kayser

[Chuck W.]

Re: GM - Back to Old Ways

Ridge,

I would like very much to get together. I am going to Kissimmee this week in case you are also going.

I believe that we both understand the necessity of physical requirements in some professions, hence my sarcasm ().

Chuck

[Ridge K.]

Re: GM - Back to Old Ways

Ridge,

I would like very much to get together. I am going to Kissimmee this week in case you are also going.

I believe that we both understand the necessity of physical requirements in some professions, hence my sarcasm ().

Chuck

God, I wish so very badly I could go to Kissimmee to soak up some toasty warm sunshine. I finished shoveling the driveway of snow just this morning. Unfortunately, I have some elderly family members needing my help right now.

I did catch that your comment was somewhat in jest.
I must admit this is a sensitive subject for me. Sadly, I've had several good people die in my arms, with the sinking feeling that I couldn't do anything humanly possible to save them.
I also was side by side officers during three shoot-outs over that same 29 year career. One with a horribly tragic death of a veteran police officer. A very, very good man.

The subject of affirmative action hiring decisions concerning gender (technically in the federal courts eyes ...a "protected class", as far as gender is concerned) is a very, very serious issue in my eyes. I better stop at this point.

I hope so much to have the pleasure of meeting you in the future. I'll buy the beverage if you just allow me to pick your brain on a few restoration issues. Just ten minutes of shop talk, ....I promise.

Thanks for the reply,
Ridge

[Chuck W.]

Re: GM - Back to Old Ways

God, I wish so very badly I could go to Kissimmee to soak up some toasty warm sunshine. I finished shoveling the driveway of snow just this morning. Unfortunately, I have some elderly family members needing my help right now.

I did catch that your comment was somewhat in jest.
I must admit this is a sensitive subject for me. Sadly, I've had several good people die in my arms, with the sinking feeling that I couldn't do anything humanly possible to save them.
I also was side by side officers during three shoot-outs over that same 29 year career. One with a horribly tragic death of a veteran police officer. A very, very good man.

The subject of affirmative action hiring decisions concerning gender (technically in the federal courts eyes ...a "protected class", as far as gender is concerned) is a very, very serious issue in my eyes. I better stop at this point.

I hope so much to have the pleasure of meeting you in the future. I'll buy the beverage if you just allow me to pick your brain on a few restoration issues. Just ten minutes of shop talk, ....I promise.

Thanks for the reply,
Ridge

Ridge,

Do you happen to know Ron Blissit, a Mercedes & Pierce Arrow restorer in OK?

Chuck

[Ridge K.]

Re: GM - Back to Old Ways

Chuck, I have not met that person.
I have been attending the Tulsa Leake Collector Car auction for well over 30 consecutive years, so I'm surprised I haven't met him.

[Domenic T.]

Re: GM - Back to Old Ways

I guess being brought up in Chicago heights, IL has something to do with what I would like to see as an athoritoive figure.
I guess I watched to many John wayne movies. Can you imagine Pee Wee Herman playing the part then?
I got my but kicked by both firemen and police if I got out of line, one for bringing matches to school and the other I'll not say but I was pulled out of my 59 chevy and told "never to drag race in my town again "by a police officer. NO ticket was issued and I NEVER did it again.
Times have changed from when the cop broke up a fight ALL BY HIMSELF, maybe a club was used but NO gun.
In my day there were thugs in grade school and high school that would make short order out of what I see in the squad car today.
If you have gone thru the 60's then you will under stand where a few of us are coming from.
Many of us quit the phone company then because they were ORDERED to hire 10percent minorities. Then a follow up ORDER to make management 10 percent minority. Guess who got promoted?
Then a few years later women orerators were offered a sum of money to go into the plant division because it was all male. They were brought right up the ladder and when I asked my boss a question about a work order she just sat there and giggled.
There were guys that walked the line for 15 years that were passed up and never made it because of that. That tends to make one a little bitter.

But on a funny note, someone in the posts said a woman would ask for directions when climbing a ladder to cary one down.
Even I know you usually go down.

DOM

[Chuck S.]

Re: GM - Back to Old Ways

...Why don't we give Mary Barra a shot before we declare "GM - Back to Old Ways"... just sayin!

I believe Barra's contribution will ultimately be more important to the future of GM than Akerson's. I wish her and GM success.

In any event, I am past being concerned about the inequities and risks of work careers shaped by government intervention. I'm comfortable waiting to see how it all plays out. I've already indirectly experienced the effects of a third minority crusade...maybe this one will help my grandchildren (they qualify as hispanic). My preference would be that they are, without a doubt, the very best qualified without government assistance.

[Stuart F.]

Re: GM - Back to Old Ways

My twin sons qualify as 50% Pacific Basin, but they never got any breaks in High School, College, OTS, or Flight School because of it. They were nominated for Military Academies, but neither was accepted simply due to a lack of High School Athletic Letters. They both served over 10 years in the Air Force as Pilots and now are Captains with a major Airline. They worked hard for every achievement, every medal, every promotion and every highlite on their resumes. If anything, they faced constant discrimination at their every endeavor, but still they persevered and succeeded. The only thing I can thank GM for is my paycheck that served to back them up. We never considered GMI as a direction for my sons because I had once tried to help my nephew get in without any success. He had graduated top of his High School class and was of Thai/Chinese ancestry. He went on to get a PHD from Northwestern and managed the entire Asian Branch for Lucent Technologies for a number of years, retiring early as a millionaire - but he was not good enough for GM.

As for me, I too bumped my head up against the GM glass ceiling. My main fault was that I wasn't born a GM man. I had spent the first 15 years of my working career employed elsewhere, and was one of the first hired in off the street for a specific job (not from within). Whenever I presented any "new to GM" ideas that I brought with me to help solve problems, I ran into a stone wall, i.e. "that's probably a very good idea, but that's not the way we do things here at GM". I did everything they asked of me to position myself to move up the heirarcy, but I always carried the stigma of not being born at GM (and I wasn't a M***n).

Stu Fox