Clear Coat Over Acrylic Laquer?

[Clark K.]

Recently, when talking via phone to a former owner of my '65 Sting Ray, I mentioned that the car now takes a huge hit on the exterior finish being over-restored. Kurt wondered why the car would have been repainted since he painted the car in the late 80's. The car only has ~10K miles more on it since he sold it 12 years ago.

So, it was apparently pampered during that time. I told him that the car now appears to be finished in a BC/CC system, not the acrylic laquer that Kurt used 21 years ago. When I bought the car, it had leaking rear shocks, collapsed springs, and worn out suspension bushings, among other things, all signs to me that the previous owners were cheapskates.

He came up with a possibility to explain the car's current ultra glossiness. He thinks that one of the owners of the car did NOT remove the laquer and shoot BC/CC. Kurt thinks that whoever the cheapskate owner was, he simply prepped the acrylic laquer and shot over it with a clear coat.

What do you guys think? Is this possible? If this is the case, what is the best way to permanently degloss the door jambs and the other areas that should not be glossy?
-Clark

[Larry M.]

Re: Clear Coat Over Acrylic Laquer?

Recently, when talking via phone to a former owner of my '65 Sting Ray, I mentioned that the car now takes a huge hit on the exterior finish being over-restored. Kurt wondered why the car would have been repainted since he painted the car in the late 80's. The car only has ~10K miles more on it since he sold it 12 years ago.

So, it was apparently pampered during that time. I told him that the car now appears to be finished in a BC/CC system, not the acrylic laquer that Kurt used 21 years ago. When I bought the car, it had leaking rear shocks, collapsed springs, and worn out suspension bushings, among other things, all signs to me that the previous owners were cheapskates.

He came up with a possibility to explain the car's current ultra glossiness. He thinks that one of the owners of the car did NOT remove the laquer and shoot BC/CC. Kurt thinks that whoever the cheapskate owner was, he simply prepped the acrylic laquer and shot over it with a clear coat.

What do you guys think? Is this possible? If this is the case, what is the best way to permanently degloss the door jambs and the other areas that should not be glossy?
-Clark

Spraying clear lacquer or a mix of color and clear is quite common. This was done on my 1967 car. The paint really "pops" and receives a lot of compliments, but does not always judge well......although it did earn gold at Bloomington.

Larry

[Chuck S.]

Re: Clear Coat Over Acrylic Laquer?

Are you saying lacquer clear over the prepped acrylic lacquer repaint?...Or, urethane BC/CC over the lacquer repaint?

Your first task is probably to find out exactly what's on top by rubbing a hidden shiny spot with lacquer thinner. This rub would have to be in an area where the latest clear was applied. If it's lacquer clear, the finish will dull and ultimately be removed; if it's urethane clear, lacquer thinner won't have much effect on it...in fact, not even chemical strippers will take it off efficiently.

There's plenty of peril in applying either clear lacquer or BC/CC directly over lacquer in my opinion. First, to prep sand existing metallic lacquer (you don't say which color) would increase the possibility of sanding too deep into the metallic sublayer resulting in splotching. If it looks fine now, and it's lacquer clear, then they did a careful prep.

Second, to spray BC from a urethane based system directly over acrylic lacquer without a sealer coat, is not something I would do. Maybe someone less conscientious, for example, a "cheapskate" would do it. I haven't checked the BC/CC compatibility chart, but spraying BC over lacquer doesn't seem advisable. Again, if the second repaint has held up for many years, it's probably OK.

[Dick W.]

Re: Clear Coat Over Acrylic Laquer?

Clearing lacquer was popular in the '70's and early '80's. Down side was the sometimes the clear would craze or turn yellow.


If your jambs and hood ledge are shiny, I would suspect that it is not lacquer clear. To make it shine, you had to buff it.

Shooting modern clears over lacquer is very dicey. The modern solvents can penetrate the lacquer and cause more problems than you want to even think about.

[Domenic T.]

Re: Clear Coat Over Acrylic Laquer?

Clark,
It was comon to spray a 2 part clear over the acrylic laquer as larry said.
That usually was done at the first signs of the acrylic starting to check (crack)in order to save the paint job.

It was also done when a paint job started to oxidize.

Most, "now I only said most '' acrylic laquer paint didn't make it 12 years without checking.
I did my 67 with acrylic laquer and drove it all the time. It started going bad about 5 years after I did it and it wasn't over old paint.

It broke my heart to see it do that but I was warned and knew better.

DOM

[Clark K.]

Re: Clear Coat Over Acrylic Laquer?

If your jambs and hood ledge are shiny, I would suspect that it is not lacquer clear. To make it shine, you had to buff it.

In my initial posting, I should have written that the car's color is Rally Red. It is so shiny everywhere, under the bumpers, the cowl vents, door jambs, etc. everyone assumed that someone had done a 2 part system (BC/CC). But, I am now thinking that a former owner wanted to make the 15 year old acrylic lacquer "pop" for a better resale, so he prepped the lacquer and sprayed some sort of clear over the rally red. It is unknown what clear he used, though, but I now know from another post that lacquer thinner used in an inconspicuous spot should tell me if it is clear lacquer or clear urethane. I suspect it is clear urethane, though.

So, if it is clear urethane sprayed over the 20 year old rally red acrylic lacquer, what should/could I have done at a paint shop to dull the areas that should NOT be glossy? I got a total deduction for exterior paint at the Texas Regional in '09.
-Clark

[Thomas K.]

Re: Clear Coat Over Acrylic Laquer?

I have done several restorations and usually paint mettalic colors with urethane base coat clear coat. The clear i use has a 4-1-1 mix and i add i part of flatting base. This gives the correct appearance in the areas that should be slightly dull. I buff the exterior to bring up the gloss and the flatting base in the clear helps with the clarity of image.

[Duke W.]

Re: Clear Coat Over Acrylic Laquer?

The first thing you need to do is the lacquer thinner test in an inconspicuous area. That will determine if it has a clear coat and what kind it is. A lacquer clear coat will dissolve in lacquer thinner, urethane will not.

If it does have some kind of clear, about the only thing you can do is machine polish it with a fairly course compound. This will dull the surface somewhat. Then don't wax the door jams, hood gutter, etc, but wax the rest of the car.

It will probably never look completely "right", but you might score better in judging.

It's very difficult to make anything other than acrylic lacquer look like acrylic lacquer to an experienced judge.

Duke

[Ridge K.]

Re: Clear Coat Over Acrylic Laquer?

Clark,
It was comon to spray a 2 part clear over the acrylic laquer as larry said.
That usually was done at the first signs of the acrylic starting to check (crack)in order to save the paint job.

It was also done when a paint job started to oxidize.

Most, "now I only said most '' acrylic laquer paint didn't make it 12 years without checking.
I did my 67 with acrylic laquer and drove it all the time. It started going badwasn't over old paint. about 5 years after I did it and it

It broke my heart to see it do that but I was warned and knew better.

DOM

Dom, when did you have your '67 shot in acrylic lacquer?
There have many many, many discussions of today's version of lacquer on these threads in the five r six years I have been aboard.
Some love it and swear by it, some have had some pretty negative results...

Ridge

[Domenic T.]

Re: Clear Coat Over Acrylic Laquer?

Ridge,
I shot my 67 with acrylic laquer in 1972 and drove the car on a regular basis. The climate was Southern California. It went bad in 5 years.
I worked part time in a body shop till 1967 when I moved to CA.
I shot my 65 super sport in 1967 with acrylic laquer for 3 reasons. One was that I wasn't satisfied with the factory paint , another was that Cadilac came out with a new color in 67 that was what I would have ordered on the 65 when I bought it, and the last was that I could do it in the body shop before I moved to CA.
Acrylic was one of the paints of the day . It boasted that the pigment settled to the bottom with the acrylic over the top to protect the color, mostly being the new metalic colors that needed the protection of the buffing wheel.
The straight laquers were the best as you could buff tthem till you saw primer.
If you buffed metalic to far you entered the pigment. The metalic in the paint also settled at the bottom of the pigmen. there were 3 layers of setteling.
Many painters added acrylic clear to the last coat of paint so they could color sand and buff a little farther without damaging the paint. It seemed later that the extra clear added to the problem of the short lived paint.
Why did I use a paint over again in the 70's? Because 5 years was a long time when you were in your early 20s and it was known as a sin to use enamel on a vette back then.

DOM

[Dick W.]

Re: Clear Coat Over Acrylic Laquer?

The first thing you need to do is the lacquer thinner test in an inconspicuous area. That will determine if it has a clear coat and what kind it is. A lacquer clear coat will dissolve in lacquer thinner, urethane will not.

If it does have some kind of clear, about the only thing you can do is machine polish it with a fairly course compound. This will dull the surface somewhat. Then don't wax the door jams, hood gutter, etc, but wax the rest of the car.

It will probably never look completely "right", but you might score better in judging.

It's very difficult to make anything other than acrylic lacquer look like acrylic lacquer to an experienced judge.

Duke

Scotchbrite pads work on the gloss pretty well and a little rubbing with coarse rubbing compond.

[Domenic T.]

Re: Clear Coat Over Acrylic Laquer?

Clark,
You can always get even and reverse what was done and put acrylic clear over the areas of concern.
Test a small area before you do it but a good urathane will take a top coat of laquer if prepped right.

DOM

[Joe M.]

Re: Clear Coat Over Acrylic Laquer?

Dupont had a clear coat intended for the base coat/clear coat that was also compatible with acrylic lacquer. Believe the clear was 380.

380 is now extinct and no clue if any current formulations would work. then again when I shot my car I used the old style lacquer.