Delco Remy Patent 2769047 Distributor cap - 5 variations ???

[Jeff A.]

While looking through some of my collected distributor caps, I ran across 5 variations of the Black Patent 2769047 Distributor Caps.

Delco Remy Patent 2769047 R
Delco Remy Patent 2769047
Delco Remy AH Patent 2769047 R
Delco Remy AU Patent 2769047 R
Delco Remy BE Patent 2769047 R

Anyone have an idea what all those different markings are?

[Jeff A.]

Re: Delco Remy Patent 2769047 Distributor cap - 5 variations ???

The AU and the AH caps are dramatically heaver in weight, then the BE or the other D308R's these all have aluminum Contacts

these 2 variations are even heaver then the Brown D309's I have.

Any ideas?

[William C.]

Re: Delco Remy Patent 2769047 Distributor cap - 5 variations ???

Considering the number of different molds that Delco Remy had to run to meet the GM volume of around 20,000 V8 caps per day in the early 70's, Id say it's likely that the need to redo the tools for "patent #" vs "Patent Pending" gave them an opportunity to code each tool with a ID that would allow any problems identified to be quickly traced to a particular tool to facilitate repair. Different weight parts could likely be explained by improvements in tool design and molding practices as new tools were introduced to meet increased volumes. In the 1972-73 era, Component plants were being pushed to production volumes that had not been previously seen, and many plants were running tools that had been replaced by "newer" versions of the tool due to the need to meet the production requirements.

[Jeff A.]

Re: Delco Remy Patent 2769047 Distributor cap - 5 variations ???

Thanks - considering that - would these caps be correct for Corvette applications?
Would judges deduct for these different anomalies?

Are these caps typical, or not correct for factory production standards?

Edit: Based on where I pulled these from- I would say they are absolutely production line caps,
Although they were not pulled from wrecked Corvettes

[William C.]

Re: Delco Remy Patent 2769047 Distributor cap - 5 variations ???

Any year-appropriate cap could have been used on any GM vehicle of the period. That said, I am unsure as to when the Patent Number was applied as opposed to "patent Pending" Certainly in the years thru '67, no Patent number caps would be considered correct. You would have to consult the judging guides to find the point when the switch from Patent Pending was switched to Patent xxxxxxx, it would have to have been after 1972, and before 1975 when all GM went to HEI. Yes, judges would (should at least) deduct for a "replacement" Delco that did not conform to the original configuration.

[Paul O.]

Re: Delco Remy Patent 2769047 Distributor cap - 5 variations ???

From what I have seen and noted over the years D308 no "R" caps had 2 distinct versions
1. Patent Pending
2. Patent # xxxxxxx
Some time in the later 60's the Patent # cap with no "R" appeared I do not know the exact time frame or if they were used in production but it did occur. I have had some examples and have seen many at swap meets and they were Delco caps.

Then in the very late 60's the Patent Pending "R" resistor cap appeared late 68 early 69 or so. With a larger variation of types. Then sometime in mid to late 72 the Patent # 7 digit appeared.
1. Patent Pending "R"
2. Patent # 7 digit "R"
3. Patent # 6 digit "R" Canada
4. Patent # small "R"
5. Patent # large "R"
6. As Jeff has listed many other 2 letter designator caps. Plus I would expect many more variants then what is listed here. Alone with what is on the inside of the caps Delco trade mark and various numbers along side.

It is my opinion that with such a long and high numbers made over the years it would be hard to say without hard evidence what cap is correct for a particular car if that car was close to mold changes from Delco.

Paul 18046

[William C.]

Re: Delco Remy Patent 2769047 Distributor cap - 5 variations ???

All I can tell you is that many NCRS volunteers have researched this topic over the last 35+ years, and there is no record or documentation of any original Corvette having a cap with the patent number displayed in the 1958-1972 model years. I must admit I am deficient in not owning a judging guide for a '73-74 Shark, and the point is moot for '75 and newer cars due to the move to HEI. Tooling changes in a Phenolic molding operation are seldom done without some outside influence in the GM production process, so it is very likely the change from patent pending R to the use of the patent number would have been accomplished in a relatively short timeframe. I would imagine somewhere there is a GM print with a revision date on it to start the process, but I do not have access to a copy.

[Paul O.]

Re: Delco Remy Patent 2769047 Distributor cap - 5 variations ???

The original Patent was filed Dec. 23, 1953 and looks to be issued Oct. 30, 1956 for Patent # 2769047. The Patent was for the whole distributor the cap included. Here is a quote of how the Patent process works.

Many inventors and manufacturers apply for official patents through the United States Patents and Trade Office (USPTO), but the approval process can take at least 18 months. In order to establish ownership of a product idea, inventors and manufacturers often place the words "Patent Pending" (abbreviated Pat. Pend.) directly on the products until the official patent is issued. "Patent Pending" lets other inventors and marketers know that the USPTO application process has already begun and it's only a matter of time before a 20 year patent is granted, at least in the case of products.
There are certain conditions under which the "Patent Pending" designation can be used. The most important condition is to actually have a patent pending in the USPTO or foreign equivalent. Unscrupulous manufacturers cannot legally place the words Patent Pending on a product without a patent. Once the actual application has started, only the inventor or manufacturer can use Patent Pending for intellectual property protection. Once a patent is issued, the official patent number should replace any other stopgap designations.
The use of "Patent Pending", surprisingly enough, does not fully protect the inventor or manufacturer from competitors. Until the USPTO patent application is completely approved, any other manufacturer can legally use the basic concepts behind any product or technology. What the Patent Pending designation does is let all other competitors know that, in a relatively short amount of time, the product (along with the design and manufacturing ideas) will be the exclusive property of the patent holder. Other companies can continue to produce similar products right up until the official patent is issued and the markings on the patented product are changed.



From the above statement tells me that once the Patent is issued the Patent Number should be used in place of the Patent Pending. So at some point after 1956 the Patent Number was to be installed on the cap. Then when a change was made to the resistor "R" type cap a new Patent was requested and then the Patent Number was reissued hence the Patent Pending "R" cap to the Patent # "R" cap.


I do not not know the exact timing of these events but they did occur. That is why I say that no one can say with 100% certainty what style of cap was installed at the factory. We can only look at original unrestored cars that may or may not have their original caps. We need not be so firm in our judging process when we do not have all the facts when changes did occur.

We as an organization have not seen 100% of all cars as they were delivered. If we are so firm that every item we list in a judging guide is written in stone we will lose sight of the variation that did occur.
Just my 2 cents.


Paul 18046

[William C.]

Re: Delco Remy Patent 2769047 Distributor cap - 5 variations ???

I'm not really sure where this is going, but a lot of people have been looking at these cars and parts very closely since NCRS began and well before NCRS has existed, and the judging guides reflect the combined knowledge of a lot of people. A couple of us have been rebuilding distributors for longer than NCRS has existed, and there is also an old "Restorer" article that as I recall documents the change to the wording at Delco Remy as occuring many years after the patent date was established. Why is always good for speculation, but I feel very comfortable with the wording in the current judging guides at least thru '72 as that is as far as I have looked. After 1974 MY, when the caps were no longer used for OEM applications due to HEI, anything is possible including new "service only" tooling being built that could have incorporated any number of changes. Remember that GM was building 24000 cars per DAY in 1974, and the same distributor cap was used on nearly 100% of the V-8 production. Not ony NCRS, but Chevrolet, Buick, Oldsmobile, and Pontiac Hobby groups have looked at a LOT of cars over the last 35 years or so, and the current judging guides are consistent with that larger body of common use. If someone comes forth with a documented original car that calls the question it should be revisited, but this has really been a non-issue for a long time after a lot of research.

[Terry M.]

Re: Delco Remy Patent 2769047 Distributor cap - 5 variations ???

From the above statement tells me that once the Patent is issued the Patent Number should be used in place of the Patent Pending. So at some point after 1956 the Patent Number was to be installed on the cap. Then when a change was made to the resistor "R" type cap a new Patent was requested and then the Patent Number was reissued hence the Patent Pending "R" cap to the Patent # "R" cap.


Paul 18046

Paul,

I am still waiting for someone to show me/us the "resistor." Clue -- there ain't one. But my eyes are wide open for you to show me one.

R = Registered as in Registered Patent.

[William C.]

Re: Delco Remy Patent 2769047 Distributor cap - 5 variations ???

Paul,

I am still waiting for someone to show me/us the "resistor." Clue -- there ain't one. But my eyes are wide open for you to show me one.

R = Registered as in Registered Patent.

I'm with you terry, "R" is for Registered as it patent office. Ain't no "resistor" in that puppy. I've cut more than a couple apart to make sure the contact was pointing correctly in "special" distributors.

[Jeff A.]

Re: Delco Remy Patent 2769047 Distributor cap - 5 variations ???

Except the spark plugs were changed to R plugs right around the same time.
Just a coincidence?
the first production R plugs had the resister designation on each plug

[Terry M.]

Re: Delco Remy Patent 2769047 Distributor cap - 5 variations ???

Except the spark plugs were changed to R plugs right around the same time.
Just a coincidence?
the first production R plugs had the resister designation on each plug

There is no physical difference (aside from a few grams of material) between the distributor cap with an R and without an R. So what could the spark plugs (with or without resistance) have to do with the distributor cap?

Answer please.

[John S.]

Re: Delco Remy Patent 2769047 Distributor cap - 5 variations ???

If anyone has a correct 63, 250HP dist cap, no R, I would like to buy one to eliminate my deduct points.
Thanks,
John

[Jeff A.]

Re: Delco Remy Patent 2769047 Distributor cap - 5 variations ???

Maybe the R was to let you know this cap was OK to use with resister plugs.
I don't know - maybe the composition of the plastic is different?

Just saying - R plugs and R caps began to be used right around the same time.