Chuck Jordan (1927-2010)

[Duke W.]

Chuck Jordan passed last Thursday evening, December 3, 2010 at his home in Rancho Santa Fe, California at age 83. No cause of death is listed in any of the press reports I read.

About 15 years ago I had the pleasure of spending a day with Chuck at his home. I was helping Wally Wyss research his Corvette show cars book. (Wally thought Chuck didn't like him, which wasn't the case. In any event, Wally's loss was my gain.)

His very nice estate had a big RV garage that Chuck used as an office, and one wall had a row of what must have been about 30 feet of file cabinets with automotive memorabilia.

I wasn't sure what to expect as I had never met him and he was given a rather unflattering account in "All Corvettes are Red", but he turned out to be one of the nicest most gracious guys I have ever met. We had a lot in common - both being former Air Force officers and engineers, and he took a liking to me.

After our meeting he took me to lunch and gave me some photos including one of Hall, Penske, Foyt, and Mecum at Nassau in front of a Grand Sport. I drove the Cosworth Vega down and let him drive it back to his house over some nice back roads. He liked the car, and I could tell he was a real "driver".

At the time he owned an Olds Aurora and a Ferrari Testarossa.

Rancho Santa Fe had been in the news in recent months as it was the location of the mass suicide by the group of Hall-Bopp comet fanatics.

Chuck was a real car guy through and through.

http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/20...-83-slideshow/

Duke

[Harry S.]

Re: Chuck Jordan (1927-2010)

Sad News.

Duke, I think if you go into EDIT, then ADVANCED OPTIONS you can change the title.

[Joe C.]

Re: Chuck Jordan (1927-1983)

Edit provision is fully functional on thread titles for (about) the first 10 minutes or so after post is originally put up................and then part of its functionality "times out". That has been my experience.

After (about) 10 minutes after the incorrect title is created, if you try an advanced edit, the title will be corrected within the thread only, but NOT on the TDB main page, which contains the thread listing.

Pardon my poor use of webterminology and for taking the liberty of estimating "timeout" period. I'm sure that one of the web meistros will pipe up.

[Duke W.]

Re: Chuck Jordan (1927-1983)

Well I tried, but it didn't completely take. Could one of the moderators please correct the title dates to (1927-2010)?

A couple of other anecdotes about my visit with Chuck.

I was, of course, very interested to learn more about Duntov. Given his actual position as a staff engineer in the org chart, how did he have such influence?

Chuck didn't really know for sure, but said that Duntov was very well connected to high level executives. He had "pull", and, of course, he was hired by Ed Cole, so that could only help.

I went on to describe how a 1970 Road and Track cover showed a picture of the XP-882 and proclaimed: "This is the 1973 Corvette".

Further, I described how as a grad student at the U. of Wisconsin Engine Research Center, I visited the GM Tech Center in the summer of '70 and saw at least six dyno cells with the transverse small block/transmission setup of the XP-882. It was as in the Toronado with a silent chain transmitting power to the auto or manual transmission mounted along side the engine. The transmission tailshafts were replaced with housings incorporating a bevel gearset to direct the output rearward, and from this output a short driveshaft went through a "tunnel" in the oil pan to a production Corvette axle. It was a very clever design and used mostly existing parts.

When I asked Chuck if this car really got close to production he just laughed, rolled his eyes and said: "That was just another one of Duntov's pipe dreams". Well, that certainly took the wind out of my sails.

He went on to say that all mid-engine Corvette concepts, even the clever XP-882, raised cost to the point where the price of the car would have to be substantially increased, and the senior executives did not want to do that.

Keep in mind that other issues, such as safety, emissions, and inflation were increasing prices rapidly in the seventies, and the Corvette sold quite well in that era, so the execs didn't see a need to significantly alter the car and didn't want to raise the price any more than they had to from other factors.

Duke

[Dick W.]

Re: Chuck Jordan (1927-1983)

Well I tried, but it didn't completely take. Could one of the moderators please correct the title dates to (1927-2010)?

Has to be someone above my pay grade to do it.

[Terry M.]

[Duke W.]

Re: Chuck Jordan (1927-1983)

The concept car you are probably referring to is the Stingray III. I think it was the "winner" of a design competition between the Design Center in Michigan, and the one in California (now closed) that designed/built the car. I recall that Duntov was aghast at the design and refused to endorse it because the wheels only had three nuts securing them to the hubs.

I think all GM Design VPs were quite well dressed and went beyond the conservatism of the rest if the top brass, but one would expect that of a design chief.

Lloyd Reuss was also very stylish, and author Schefter (All Corvettes are Red) described him as a "foppish dandy", which I though was way over the top and excessively perjorative.

Stempel made the deal with Schefter to allow him to observe, first hand, the design process for the C5. Unfortunately he failed to tell Jordan.

On Schefter's first day on the job he shows up at a C5 design meeting that included Jordan, and since Jordan didn't know about the deal, he threw Schefter out, so Schefter developed an animosity toward Jordan, which shows in the book, and goes beyond "jouralistic objectivity", but people are people and often can't hide their personal feelings.

DeLorean was also at the leading edge of fashion. I recall the few times I crossed paths with him at Pontiac he wore broad lapel double breasted suits - probably from an Italian designer and definitely not in line with the narrow lapel single breasted suits that were mainstream executive wear of the late sixties.

Duke

[George J.]

Re: Chuck Jordan (1927-1983)

Duke,
thank you for the first person accounts. They are always interesting. Are you sure your meeting with him wasn't more like 20-25 years ago. I remember he had a Ferrari F40 and that would have been around 1990. Supposedly he didn't keep more than one, preferring to have the latest and greatest.

George

[Terry M.]

Re: Chuck Jordan (1927-1983)

The concept car you are probably referring to is the Stingray III. I think it was the "winner" of a design competition between the Design Center in Michigan, and the one in California (now closed) that designed/built the car. I recall that Duntov was aghast at the design and refused to endorse it because the wheels only had three nuts securing them to the hubs.

I think all GM Design VPs were quite well dressed and went beyond the conservatism of the rest if the top brass, but one would expect that of a design chief.

Lloyd Reuss was also very stylish, and author Schefter (All Corvettes are Red) described him as a "foppish dandy", which I though was way over the top and excessively perjorative.

Stempel made the deal with Schefter to allow him to observe, first hand, the design process for the C5. Unfortunately he failed to tell Jordan.

On Schefter's first day on the job he shows up at a C5 design meeting that included Jordan, and since Jordan didn't know about the deal, he threw Schefter out, so Schefter developed an animosity toward Jordan, which shows in the book, and goes beyond "jouralistic objectivity", but people are people and often can't hide their personal feelings.

DeLorean was also at the leading edge of fashion. I recall the few times I crossed paths with him at Pontiac he wore broad lapel double breasted suits - probably from an Italian designer and definitely not in line with the narrow lapel single breasted suits that were mainstream executive wear of the late sixties.

Duke

I believe you are right about the car, and the design chiefs too. There is a long legacy of fashion that continued into more modern times.

Not too surprising that Jordan threw Schefter out. Those guy's going all the way back to Harley Earl ran their turf with an iron hand. To even question their authority was terminal.

[John H.]

Re: Chuck Jordan (1927-1983)

I knew Chuck quite well in the early 70's, before he went to Opel as Design Director; he and I and several others (including Hank Haga and Dick Ruzzin, also from GM Styling) were founding members of the Motor City Region of the Ferrari Club of America.

Chuck was always immaculately groomed and dressed, regardless of the occasion - that was a hallmark of his "presence". I hadn't seen him since 1985, when I left GM, until I talked to him at the Meadow Brook Concours d'Elegance last summer; the heat and humidity were absolutely stifling, but he was, as always, dressed befitting his position, with his traditional blazer and tie.

Chuck was a real gentleman, and a real "car guy" too. I'll miss him.

[George J.]

Re: Chuck Jordan (1927-2010)

John,
I didn't know you knew Dick. Small world. Now he cruises around in the Mangusta when the weather is nice. Interesting car.

George

[Jay G.]

Re: Chuck Jordan (1927-1983)

I believe you are right about the car, and the design chiefs too. There is a long legacy of fashion that continued into more modern times.

Not too surprising that Jordan threw Schefter out. Those guy's going all the way back to Harley Earl ran their turf with an iron hand. To even question their authority was terminal.

My experience with Chuck Jordan goes back to 2002. While researching my then 64 Corvette Rosenberger Car. Chuck was more than helpful and knowledgeble in docing the car. As he put it "Looks like a Engineering Excersise". Than anything else. Very protective of the/his tenure at the Styling Dept.
Great sense of humour.

We talked at length about the C-5 protype he developed when he returned to GM. I treasure the signed pics of the "Purple"Mule" and Couple Pics of his then New Milano Ferrari Silver on Red.
He passing is a heads up to all who love cars period. That the wealth of info these people posess should never be dismissed.

Funny anetdote. I told him I bought a 58 270HP Vette in 1969 @ 17yrs old. For $600.00 He laughed Said "I'm the Guy who designed the Trunk Spears".
You did That along with number of other things in a full and important career.
God Speed Chuck, Sure there a ride waiting for you.

[John H.]

Re: Chuck Jordan (1927-2010)

John,
I didn't know you knew Dick. Small world. Now he cruises around in the Mangusta when the weather is nice. Interesting car.

George

Dick, among other things, was a real "fit and finish" specialist in those days; always enjoyed his home when we had mid-winter "garage tours". Still remember his silver Ferrari Daytona with its "BEAST" license plate.

[Terry M.]

Re: Chuck Jordan (1927-1983)

I knew Chuck quite well in the early 70's, before he went to Opel as Design Director; he and I and several others (including Hank Haga and Dick Ruzzin, also from GM Styling) were founding members of the Motor City Region of the Ferrari Club of America.

Chuck was always immaculately groomed and dressed, regardless of the occasion - that was a hallmark of his "presence". I hadn't seen him since 1985, when I left GM, until I talked to him at the Meadow Brook Concours d'Elegance last summer; the heat and humidity were absolutely stifling, but he was, as always, dressed befitting his position, with his traditional blazer and tie.

Chuck was a real gentleman, and a real "car guy" too. I'll miss him.

John, You nailed it in one word "presence" is exactly it. He didn't have to introduce himself -- I just knew he was the boss the moment I saw him.

[Duke W.]

Re: Chuck Jordan (1927-1983)

Duke,
thank you for the first person accounts. They are always interesting. Are you sure your meeting with him wasn't more like 20-25 years ago. I remember he had a Ferrari F40 and that would have been around 1990. Supposedly he didn't keep more than one, preferring to have the latest and greatest.

George

The Hale-Bopp mass suicide in Rancho Santa Fe was in March 1997, and Wally's book was published in 1997. I recall that the former was less than a year in the past, so it must have been the summer or fall of that year that I visited Chuck - 13 years ago, but it sure doesn't seem that far in the past as the memory is fresh. The older you get the faster time flies!

IIRC he said he had a TR, but I didn't see it as it was in another garage. We spent from morning to early afternoon in his "office" - the big RV garage and then went out to lunch.

The back roads around Rancho Santa Fe are pretty narrow - some with little or no shoulder, and I recall thinking that a TR might be a challenge on such narrow roads because it's so wide.

Duke