Repro windshields and judging

[Mike R.]

What experiences have you had getting repro. dated windshields judged?

My original windshield was removed undamaged from the car. It is starting to delaminate around the edges, has some "wiper tracks" on one side but seems otherwise OK.

A NCRS judge told me he can recognize the repro windshields easily, He said that the markings are wrong and he does not think the windshields are as high quality as, say, a PPG windshield.

I want a "good" windshield but I don't want to give away 20 points. At this point I can:

Install the original windshield get the 20 originality points and some of the condition points.

Install a replacement windshield and get no originality points but get all 10 condition points.

Install a reproduction dated windshield. How many originality points should I expect? I should get all 10 condition points.

Install a non dated repro windshield and get some originality points, all the condition points and save $200

What would/did you do? and Why?

Thanks

Mike

[Reba W.]

Re: Repro windshields and judging

Just a note about your choices listed for points: If all originality points are lost, then all condition is also lost. This would be a total deduction in both columns. At least 10% orginality must be earned to get any condition credit.

Glass is included in the standard deduction tables listed in the Judging Reference Manual. I am sure that an exterior judge can tell you what percentage to expect.

[Terry B.]

Re: Repro windshields and judging

Hi Mike,

I'm interested too about a replacement windshield and where to shop to get the best replacement. I hope many master exterior judges give their opinions on replacements including the installation of the replacement and what they look for in the weather seal.

[Paul O.]

Re: Repro windshields and judging

Mike as Reba stated there is a standard deduction for the windshields.

1. Deduct 20% if the windshield is correct in all way except for the date
2. Deduct 30% OEM brand later service replacement with correct tinting.
3. Deduct 50% OEM brand with incorrect tinting.
4. Deduct 90% for non-OEM brand glass

With that said you have to chose were you would like to lose any points on the originality or condition side of the sheet. I personally would chose the condition side but that is me. Even if you reinstall your original glass you still could lose a point for the install process. When the original glass was installed they used a dam with a mesh type material to reinforce it. There has been some discussion on the board about products that can be used to try and emulate that type of mesh. As with any standard deduction the judging team may deduct addition points for other item that are deemed not typical factory.

As for who makes the best reproduction glass about 20 years ago I had to replace the windshield in my 71 LT-1. I used OEM glass out of Bloomington IL. There reproduction in my opinion was as good as the original the tinting, tinting arrow and date looked just as the original glass did. Now that was years ago and the owner of OEM was killed in an accident this past year. Now I do not know if they are continuing to make windshields or not at this time but if they are and still make them to the original owners standards they were almost perfect. The other reproductions that I see are always a 50% standard deduction plus any additional problems found by the team.

http://www.oemglass.net/

Hope that helps.

Paul 18046

[Terry B.]

Re: Repro windshields and judging

Hi Mike,

I took Paul's advice and called oemglass. I spoke with Chuck and he said replacement glass is close but not exactly like the original. One area of concern is the the tinting area. Tinting is not like the original and judges look for that correct taper in the tinting. The cost was $355 plus shipping. He said he has the exact date code and logo but the thickness (which I find difficult to believe that someone would check that on the judging field) and tinting will be an issue where points will be lost. Another area that you might have a problem is the weather seal for the windshield.

I would like to have a master judge comment on how he would judge a good replacement windshield with the problems mentioned above to see if it is worth the cost. Thanks.

[Terry M.]

Re: Repro windshields and judging

I don't judge exteriors, but I will tell you that the glass thickness issue is easily seen on side glass -- and that was likely the genesis of the disclaimer you got from the glass company.

There have been a couple of threads on this board about the windshield installation technique. I recall them as being full of information, photos and frustration.

I have never seen it done on the judging field, but glass companies sell a card with lines on it that can be placed on the dash of the car. Somehow when looking through the windshield one can tell the thickness of the glass from the refracted image on the card. Maybe soon we will see those cards used on the judging field.

[Paul O.]

Re: Repro windshields and judging

Terry B. I agree with Terry M. that the side glass is were we see the thickness issue the windshield would be very difficult for a judge to make a call on thickness. As I stated earlier things change and I was hoping that OEM was still making them very correct.

The sun shade should be a very uniform width from one side to the other if it gets wider at both ends then in the center. Then the tinting of all the reproduction windshield are he same. The other item is the "T" arrow on the passengers side is usually within about an inch or 2 from the windshield post the reproductions are usually further inboard. I have seen them as much as 6 to 8 inches from the post. This arrow is to indicate no sunshade below this line so if the sunshade is wider at the ends this in turn would make the arrow lower then is normal.

Terry B. this is your call but if all the reproduction windshields are made the same with the same issues then the lowest cost is what I would use.

Paul 18046

[Michael F.]

Re: Repro windshields and judging

I think the ncrs is getting to anal about some of these things and that is why I never have or never will have my car judged, I don't need the validation for my car because I don't care what others think.... by the way, I am thankful for what ncrs has done for the corvette world, but some things need to be relaxed...my 2 cents and to each their own.

[Mark D.]

Re: Repro windshields and judging

Yeah, I agree. It's way too anal to judge the difference between an original and reproduction where the markings AND tinting band are not even close. Ray Charles could see the difference but NCRS should just let it go. That way, everyone is equal and all get the same award. Just like Little League...everyone should play the same amount so no one's feelings are hurt and nobody's scarred for life.
Disclaimer: I am thankful for NCRS and please don't be mad at me...I'm just sayin...

[Alan S.]

Re: Repro windshields and judging

Hi Mike,
Another source for windshield glass with the logo and date is Auto City Classic. If you check out their website you may want to consider them too.
Regards,
Alan

[Mike R.]

Re: Repro windshields and judging

I have to agree with Mark here. If originality is the objective then repro parts are counterfeit whenever they are passed off as original. No different from counterfeit money. I will be polishing my original windshield once the supplies arrive....It will still be 40yrs old, somewhat faded and slightly delaminated. I guess I am too.

Yeah, I agree. It's way too anal to judge the difference between an original and reproduction where the markings AND tinting band are not even close. Ray Charles could see the difference but NCRS should just let it go. That way, everyone is equal and all get the same award. Just like Little League...everyone should play the same amount so no one's feelings are hurt and nobody's scarred for life.
Disclaimer: I am thankful for NCRS and please don't be mad at me...I'm just sayin...

[Edward J.]

Re: Repro windshields and judging

Mike, If you wouldn't mind let me/us know how your polishing works out I have a original 63 windshield and would like to try a salvage mine. Thanks Ed.

[Paul J.]

Re: Repro windshields and judging

Has anyone heard if it's possible to run an old, delaminating windshield back through the lamination process? I've worked with several glass companies, and one of them used an autoclave for lamination. The vinyl laminate in an old windshield should still be plyable enough to adhere to the glass.

I know that getting a glass company to mess with this would be an uphill battle, but I was just wondering if anyone has heard of this.

[Terry B.]

Re: Repro windshields and judging

At the McDorman Regional I lost 12 originality points and no condition points because of the windshield tinting and non standard logo. It is a replacement windshield made by the original glass manufacturer however. Based on what Paul has written about standard deductions on windshield glass, I think the judges were very fair on the deduction. If I purchased a replacement windshield, I might pick up 2 points at best with the tinting issues earlier stated. Mike, you have the right idea working with your original. I'm going to wait on a replacement windshield that will have the tinting and arrow correct before I replace what I have. I will need to look to other areas to place my energy and money, where I can make up some points.

[Mike R.]

Re: Repro windshields and judging

I talked to a member who successfully polished out what he described as a "deep" scratch. I will let you know how mine works out.

Mike, If you wouldn't mind let me/us know how your polishing works out I have a original 63 windshield and would like to try a salvage mine. Thanks Ed.