Can this paint be saved?

[Chris H.]

Seller claims, and it appears to be original St. Louis lacquer. Can this paint be buffed out so it would be shiny again? (especially the horizontal surfaces).

Thanks, Chris

[Jay G.]

Re: Can this paint be saved?

Seller claims, and it appears to be original St. Louis lacquer. Can this paint be buffed out so it would be shiny again? (especially the horizontal surfaces).

Thanks, Chris

Personal preference as to what is shiney. Myself, I'm Always looking for Org. Laquer paint. The car appears to have a fair chance at restoring its luster. But only if you expections are not too high.

Laquer is never going to be like a 2 stage PPG paint w/clear. If true org. paint. Shame to repaint it. But your own personal preference.
Again a find in my Opinion. Pic of 67's with Org. Laquer after I buffed w/ Mcguires products. Google em.
They'll give tech 800 line to direct you to their products. That may fufill you needs.
Just one company though a myriad of them out there.

[Oliver B.]

Re: Can this paint be saved?

LOVE to see such an original paint - although I pity its state...

I'd try whatever possible to keep it. And by trying you don't lose anything: if a re-paint is unavoidable, it still will be afterwards. The only thing you have to invest is time and elbow-grease (okay, in not too small amounts, to be fair).
A try should at least be worth it.

[Chris H.]

Re: Can this paint be saved?

I wouldn't be be trying to win any awards with the paint, just make it so that it's more "presentable" and have consistnecy of shine between the horizontal and the vertical surfaces.

I love original paint cars, no matter how bad the paint is, and would never repaint this one. I'm just trying to learn if I can do anything with the paint that's on the car.

[Jay G.]

Re: Can this paint be saved?

I wouldn't be be trying to win any awards with the paint, just make it so that it's more "presentable" and have consistnecy of shine between the horizontal and the vertical surfaces.

I love original paint cars, no matter how bad the paint is, and would never repaint this one. I'm just trying to learn if I can do anything with the paint that's on the car.

Common Sense approach. If you can physically view the car. Ask if the owner will let you polish small fender area etc.
To get a read on results.
Course you run the risk of Sellers Remorse. Looks good he might not Sell.

[Chuck S.]

Re: Can this paint be saved?

Agree with Jay...It's worth a shot.

Success will depend on how many times the car has been buffed over the years. Every buffing removes a little paint thickness to remove oxidation and restore fresh paint to the surface. The horizontal surfaces have the greatest exposure to the elements and are more prone to oxidation (they have probably also received the most buffing over the years). FAILURE could mean a repaint unless you're OK with a few break throughs.

You should probably start with manual polishing. In no case would I let anyone get near that paint with a rotary buffer or improvised pad on an electric drill.

If you decide manual polishing is too much work, buy yourself a Porter Cable 7424 random orbital polisher if you don't have one. Also study up on the pads, techniques, and products to use with the polisher. I have never heard of anyone burning through their paint with a PC polisher, but if the paint is VERY thin, I suppose you could.

[Duke W.]

Re: Can this paint be saved?

Faded lacquers can be restored either manually or with a machine using various polishing compounds. These remove the surface oxidized paint, but the OE lacquer is only about .002-.004" (2-4 mils) thick, so this can only be done a limited number of times before the remaining lacquer film is so thin you can see the underlying primer.

Cracking and crazing cannot be removed because the lacquer film is usually cracked through the entire thickness. Lacquer is a thermoplastic. It doesn't harden via oxidation like enamal. Lacquers remain soluble and continue to loose solvents through their life, which causes them to shrink. This is what causes the cracking/crazing, and it's actually worse the thicker the film.

Those 27 hand rubbed coats of candy apple red from the sixties didn't last very long.

Regular waxing reduces the rate of solvent loss.

Once enamels fade - either non-catalyzed like acrylic enamel or catalyzed like polyurethane enamal - they often cannot be brought back because the entire film is damaged, but catalyzed enamels like polyurethane are ultimately more durable than most other paints, which is why they are used on airplanes and commercial equipment, but they are expensive and somewhat difficult to apply.

I personally don't think much of modern two-stage (color coat/clear coat) automotive finishes today. Though the catalyzed urethane clear coat is very durable, it is thin - only about one to two mils - and once penetrated, deterioration of the underlying color coat is rapid. I think their use is motivated more by the EPA requirement for the OEs to reduce VOC emissions.

Modern two-stage paints should not be buffed because there is so little film thickness, and even a scratch that penetrates the clear film can cause rapid deterioration of the color coat that penetrates under the clear and causes it to bubble and crack.

It's not that uncommon to see a ten year old OE two-stage job severely deteriorated with the clear film peeling off the horizontal surfaces.

If you have an OE acrylic lacquer job, it's certainly worth trying to save, but go slow and be gentle with the polishing. It may end up looking great from ten feet, and if people rag you about flaws than can be seen up close, you just say: How many factory original 35 year old acrylic lacquer jobs have you seen that looked this good lately?

That's what I tell the morons at cruise night when they criticize the paint on my Cosworth Vega. It usually shut's 'em up.

They're only original once!

Duke

[Jack C.]

Re: Can this paint be saved?

I used Adam's products and were very pleased with the results. I actually called and spoke to him and followed his recommendation. I hand polished the car using white terry cloth rags to see how much was coming off and a gage when to stop. My paint appears to be worst than yours is but I'm happy with the results, all cracks and checks taken into consideration.

[Jay G.]

Re: Can this paint be saved?

Faded lacquers can be restored either manually or with a machine using various polishing compounds. These remove the surface oxidized paint, but the OE lacquer is only about .002-.004" (2-4 mils) thick, so this can only be done a limited number of times before the remaining lacquer film is so thin you can see the underlying primer.

Cracking and crazing cannot be removed because the lacquer film is usually cracked through the entire thickness. Lacquer is a thermoplastic. It doesn't harden via oxidation like enamal. Lacquers remain soluble and continue to loose solvents through their life, which causes them to shrink. This is what causes the cracking/crazing, and it's actually worse the thicker the film.

Those 27 hand rubbed coats of candy apple red from the sixties didn't last very long.

Regular waxing reduces the rate of solvent loss.

Once enamels fade - either non-catalyzed like acrylic enamel or catalyzed like polyurethane enamal - they often cannot be brought back because the entire film is damaged, but catalyzed enamels like polyurethane are ultimately more durable than most other paints, which is why they are used on airplanes and commercial equipment, but they are expensive and somewhat difficult to apply.

I personally don't think much of modern two-stage (color coat/clear coat) automotive finishes today. Though the catalyzed urethane clear coat is very durable, it is thin - only about one to two mils - and once penetrated, deterioration of the underlying color coat is rapid. I think their use is motivated more by the EPA requirement for the OEs to reduce VOC emissions.

Modern two-stage paints should not be buffed because there is so little film thickness, and even a scratch that penetrates the clear film can cause rapid deterioration of the color coat that penetrates under the clear and causes it to bubble and crack.

It's not that uncommon to see a ten year old OE two-stage job severely deteriorated with the clear film peeling off the horizontal surfaces.

If you have an OE acrylic lacquer job, it's certainly worth trying to save, but go slow and be gentle with the polishing. It may end up looking great from ten feet, and if people rag you about flaws than can be seen up close, you just say: How many factory original 35 year old acrylic lacquer jobs have you seen that looked this good lately?

That's what I tell the morons at cruise night when they criticize the paint on my Cosworth Vega. It usually shut's 'em up.

They're only original once!

Duke

What Duke said RE: How many 35 yr old pnt jobs etc. Is correct. Lota people @ Car show I've found are amazed how well these ol pnts will look done properly. The bragging rights of NOT spending $5 -10K for a pnt job. Gives you the oppurnity to tell them I'm taking that money try to find a Driver project car. # 3 GTX, Nova, or even Chrome bumper MBG. Make up your own lists.

[Domenic T.]

Re: Can this paint be saved?

You have acrylic laquer and that is not the same as straight laquer. If you buff thru the acrylic and shine the pigment it will look good for a short time then get worse than before.
With acrylic laquer the pigment settles to the bottom and the acrylic at the top to protect the pigment, (sort of a single stage version of BC/CC)
I have put a good 2 part clear over acrylic laquer and acrylic enamel that were fading and had excelent results. The problem being is that it comes out to good.
You can put the clear on as thick as you want so you won't buff thru it (in coats).
You will have the original paint under super protection and won't have to wax it to get a shine.
The problem with the clear coming off of new cars was due to saving the cost of another coat of clear.

DOM