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TI performance K66 vs MSD vs ???

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  • Mike R.
    Expired
    • August 30, 2009
    • 321

    TI performance K66 vs MSD vs ???

    I am interested to know how the K66 ignition stacks up against modern capacitive discharge type ignitions and how the original amplifiers compare in performance to the replacement boards with more modern electronics.

    My understanding is that TI either works or it doesn't. So is the performance of a working K66 system equal to a MSD operating from the same distributor? Aside from the reliabiltiy of more modern components, do the new modules that fit within the K66 amplifier case offer any advantages?

    Thanks
  • Duke W.
    Beyond Control Poster
    • January 1, 1993
    • 15671

    #2
    Re: TI performance K66 vs MSD vs ???

    No modern cars that I know of use CD type ignition. The long duration spark generated by inductive systems is best for a road engines that see a very wide range of speed and load.

    The short duration sparks generated by CD ignitions are fine for race engines that spend most of their time at full load with rich mixtures.

    MSD is just another over-hyped hotrod product.

    Almost any electronic ignition can fail suddently without warning. Point type systems usually give you some warning that something is wrong before they completely quit.

    Duke
    Last edited by Duke W.; December 5, 2010, 10:29 AM.

    Comment

    • Mike R.
      Expired
      • August 30, 2009
      • 321

      #3
      Re: TI performance K66 vs MSD vs ???

      Thanks Duke, this is what I have long suspected. I have noted that throwing lighted matches on a campfire doesn't change the fire!

      That said, I have had good results with MSD systems in the past, I just can't say that they performed better than a inductive system.

      I also want to thank you for your counsel on my L84 engine. I ended up buying SCAT H beam rods and a new, standard size crank that I had index ground .010/.010 (the old crank was .020/.030). The valve throats were opened up with a radiused cutter and the bowls blended to that. One of the pushrod holes was worn so the rocker bosses were cut for GM guideplates and screw in studs.




      Originally posted by Duke Williams (22045)
      No modern cars that I know of use CD type ignition. The long duration spark generated by inductive systems is best for a road engines that see a very wide range of speed and load.

      The short duration sparks generated by CD ignitions are fine for race engines that spend most of their time at full load with rich mixtures.

      MSD is just another over-hyped hotrod product.

      Almost any electronic ignition can fail suddently without warning. Point type systems usually give you some warning that something is wrong before they completely quit.

      Duke

      Comment

      • Clem Z.
        Expired
        • January 1, 2006
        • 9427

        #4
        Re: TI performance K66 vs MSD vs ???

        Originally posted by Mike Rapoport (50767)
        I am interested to know how the K66 ignition stacks up against modern capacitive discharge type ignitions and how the original amplifiers compare in performance to the replacement boards with more modern electronics.

        My understanding is that TI either works or it doesn't. So is the performance of a working K66 system equal to a MSD operating from the same distributor? Aside from the reliabiltiy of more modern components, do the new modules that fit within the K66 amplifier case offer any advantages?

        Thanks
        if you have a TI distributor you can use it to trigger a MSD box. Multiple Spark Discharge occurs up to 3000 RPMs so it will help keep plugs clean in around town driving. if you do this make sure you "twist" the wires running from the distributor to the MSD box to prevent RFI from causing a interference with the distributor feed

        Comment

        • Duke W.
          Beyond Control Poster
          • January 1, 1993
          • 15671

          #5
          Re: TI performance K66 vs MSD vs ???

          As far as ignitions systems go a Delco single point, overhauled and blueprinted, will provide adequate ignition energy and reliable timing - up to 7000+ revs with the high breaker arm tension points, and a TI can be rebuilt with modern electronics in the amplifier housing to enhance reliability while maintaining OE appearance.

          Those "point conversions" are mostly okay, but it's an electronic "black box" that can fail without warning.

          I really get tired of seeing that big, clunky, red box on the the cowl of just about every car you see at cruise night.

          It looks like a relic from the seventies, which it is.

          Duke
          Last edited by Duke W.; December 5, 2010, 01:04 PM.

          Comment

          • Jack H.
            Extremely Frequent Poster
            • April 1, 1990
            • 9906

            #6
            Re: TI performance K66 vs MSD vs ???

            Different sub-features (e.g. built-in rev limiter, degree of dynamic dwell, Etc.), packaging (number of 'boxes', and where they're located), and design features (over-current/over-voltage protection for jump starting, Etc.) differentiate the various solid-state ignition systems available today.

            Capacitive discharge hasn't been a main-stream technology since the late 60's/early 70's.

            VERY few of us are active in wheel to wheel, on-track, competition where the subtle difference of this system vs. that system 'might' make an appreciable difference...

            On using the factory TI system with its original amplifier vs. today's drop-in replacement amplifier, the answer is simple. When was the last time you saw someone TOUTING their Germanium transistor technology? There's more that one reason for why the world went with Silicon transistor/IC technology and the technical explanations are involved & lengthy.

            Suffice it to say, IF the TI system's factory original amplifier is working, I wouldn't go fix what isn't broken (yet)...

            Comment

            • Clem Z.
              Expired
              • January 1, 2006
              • 9427

              #7
              Re: TI performance K66 vs MSD vs ???

              Suffice it to say, IF the TI system's factory original amplifier is working, I wouldn't go fix what isn't broken (yet)...[/quote]
              if you venture far from home carry a spare. did that all the time back in the day and even sold a few on the road and took the dead one in on trade as i repaired them back then.

              Comment

              • Michael H.
                Expired
                • January 29, 2008
                • 7477

                #8
                Re: TI performance K66 vs MSD vs ???

                I have the original Delco TI distributor and the original Delco amplifier box but not the original board. I've replaced it with an M&H electronics board and the engine starts/runs better than it ever has with the old board.

                Many won't agree but there IS a difference.

                Comment

                • Mike R.
                  Expired
                  • August 30, 2009
                  • 321

                  #9
                  Re: TI performance K66 vs MSD vs ???

                  Can you be more specific about how it "starts/runs better"? Thanks



                  Originally posted by Michael Hanson (4067)
                  I have the original Delco TI distributor and the original Delco amplifier box but not the original board. I've replaced it with an M&H electronics board and the engine starts/runs better than it ever has with the old board.

                  Many won't agree but there IS a difference.

                  Comment

                  • Michael H.
                    Expired
                    • January 29, 2008
                    • 7477

                    #10
                    Re: TI performance K66 vs MSD vs ???

                    Originally posted by Mike Rapoport (50767)
                    Can you be more specific about how it "starts/runs better"? Thanks
                    It may be hard to describe without it sounding like a Warshawsky's/J C Whitney ad that promises "faster starts, smoother idle, better mileage and more power" but it does start faster and run better.
                    When you own and drive the same car for 25 years, you know when something changes, and something did change when I installed the M&H TI board. I knew it immediately when I started the engine after installing the board. It fires instantly now.

                    I've had the new board in the car for two years with zero issues.

                    I don't know much about electronics but I know better ignition does make a difference. The old Delco board is/was technology from the late 50's.

                    Comment

                    • Dick W.
                      Former NCRS Director Region IV
                      • June 30, 1985
                      • 10483

                      #11
                      Re: TI performance K66 vs MSD vs ???

                      We have had a MSD box on Kermit for 20 or so years. This is the first BB that I have ever seen that will not foul plugs, with the exception of one due to a bad plug wire. Car had a good coil and wires when we put the box on it.

                      Duke, you will have to hunt hard to find this box. It is well hidden, the judges missed finding it when it was judged.
                      Dick Whittington

                      Comment

                      • Clem Z.
                        Expired
                        • January 1, 2006
                        • 9427

                        #12
                        Re: TI performance K66 vs MSD vs ???

                        Originally posted by Dick Whittington (8804)
                        We have had a MSD box on Kermit for 20 or so years. This is the first BB that I have ever seen that will not foul plugs, with the exception of one due to a bad plug wire. Car had a good coil and wires when we put the box on it.

                        Duke, you will have to hunt hard to find this box. It is well hidden, the judges missed finding it when it was judged.
                        paint it flat black to make it harder to find.

                        Comment

                        • Dick W.
                          Former NCRS Director Region IV
                          • June 30, 1985
                          • 10483

                          #13
                          Re: TI performance K66 vs MSD vs ???

                          Originally posted by Clem Zahrobsky (45134)
                          paint it flat black to make it harder to find.
                          Flat black, wires look like factory harness, and in a place very hard to see.
                          Dick Whittington

                          Comment

                          • Michael J.
                            Extremely Frequent Poster
                            • January 27, 2009
                            • 7122

                            #14
                            Re: TI performance K66 vs MSD vs ???

                            I find the old fashioned ballast resistor/points system to be superior in reliability to the TI in my '67 L71. I have also used the Petronix sytem to replace the points, and that seems to have worked well in the 3 cars I have used it in.
                            Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New Mexico

                            Comment

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